HarperCollins Discworld books don't display right on M/L

moonlit · 07-07-2009, 10:08 AM

Hello,

Just bought Equal Rites and Wyrd Sisters off Diesel ebooks (in Adobe Digital Editions/PDF format), and the PRS-505 with latest firmware is not able to display them properly. The same problem is evident when reading using the Sony Library software. (I stripped the DRM off the ebooks)

In "S" zoom mode, the page displays correctly but only occupies less than half of the screen; it's centered with a huge white border that makes the text much too small to read.

In "M" and "L" modes the text is fine, but EVERY PARAGRAPH is now no longer indented like in "S", but instead translated to a 1/2 line shift.

This is a problem because the 1/2 line shift is also used to separate viewpoints/"chapters" in the book, so when I use "M"/"L" I am not able to tell when one "chapter" ends and the next begins, leading to some confusion.

Anyone else noticed this problem? It could be solved by a bit more clever formatting by the publisher, I guess, but it would be more elegant if Sony fixes their software instead!

tench · 07-07-2009, 01:12 PM

I'm kind of new at this, but it looks to me like what you are describing is just how PDF books work when you resize them on the reader. The same thing is described in this thread: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43393

DixieGal · 07-07-2009, 01:18 PM

Tench is right, maybe you can get them in LRF or ePub format. Once in a blue moon, I've been able to copy the text from PDF and paste it into MSWord, then save as txt. It is still ugly, but at least you can adjust the font and it will re-flow nicely to fit your reader.

This trick doesn't work every time, approx 50% perhaps. But that is 50% more than nothing.

Good Luck!

pdurrant · 07-07-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonlit

Just bought Equal Rites and Wyrd Sisters off Diesel ebooks (in Adobe Digital Editions/PDF format), and the PRS-505 with latest firmware is not able to display them properly.

Now you understand why most people here dislike PDF as an ebook format. PDF is very much a fixed format/size, page-based format. It has been retrofitted with a method to get text to reflow, but it never works very well.

Always go for ePUB or LRF or LIT or Mobipocket. The first two work natively on your 505 and the last two can have the DRM stripped and can then be converted by Calibre.

Avoid PDF. Perhaps you might be able to persuade diesel to give you a refund or swap the format.

mklynds · 07-07-2009, 01:49 PM

I would deffinitely send that photo to Diesel and Demand a refund or format swap. Not saying you should be mean about it, but firm. They are in the sales business and have to make you happy if they want you to keep spending money there. If they refuse I would send them an email stating that you will no longer give them your business and stand by it. I know this sounds a little "strong" but if people don't stand up and demand a higher quality ebook, we will never get a higher quality ebook.

Elfwreck · 07-07-2009, 01:51 PM

That's how reflow works for PDFs, and it's part of why PDF is not a great ebook format; to work well, it needs to be set at the viewer's preferred font size because reflow has problems.

Reflow is also prone to combining short-line paragraphs, like dialog and poetry, into a single paragraph.

DixieGal · 07-07-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mklynds

I would deffinitely send that photo to Diesel and Demand a refund or format swap.

Diesel folk are good folk. You may find that "please" and "thank you" will work just as well as a demand. And it never hurts to mention that some of the members of MobileRead suggested contacting them for a format exchange.

JSWolf · 07-07-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonlit

Hello,

Just bought Equal Rites and Wyrd Sisters off Diesel ebooks (in Adobe Digital Editions/PDF format), and the PRS-505 with latest firmware is not able to display them properly. The same problem is evident when reading using the Sony Library software. (I stripped the DRM off the ebooks)

What you bought is NOT Adobe Digital Editions. That's the software to display PDF or ePub. You bought a letter sized PDF for a 6" screen. For a 6" screen PDF is a bad choice when you have other choices. BooksOnBoard has Equal Rites in ePub which would be good for your 505. And if you can strip DRM, get the MS Reader or Mobipocket editions and convert to LRF or ePub using Calibre.

http://www.booksonboard.com/index.ph...57832&v=buynow

JSWolf · 07-07-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mklynds

I would definitely send that photo to Diesel and Demand a refund or format swap. Not saying you should be mean about it, but firm. They are in the sales business and have to make you happy if they want you to keep spending money there. If they refuse I would send them an email stating that you will no longer give them your business and stand by it. I know this sounds a little "strong" but if people don't stand up and demand a higher quality ebook, we will never get a higher quality ebook.

The problem with a return is that there really is nothing wrong with the PDF. And you did select it for purchase. Also, once you return it, you can still keep a copy. So if you demand or are firm with them, they can just tell you no. Explain that you bought the wrong format based on the misunderstanding that it eould work well with your 505 based on the book saying it is Adobe Digital Editions. Then they might allow you to get a different format. But if you demand or as harsh, forget it. Also tell them that no place in the purchase does it say it's PDF. So you thought it was ePub. That would do it. Nicely shift the blame back to them.

Angst · 07-07-2009, 04:36 PM

Reading in horizontal mode increases the size of the smallest print. It might be marginally better.

Also, if you are computer savvy:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40238

mklynds · 07-08-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem with a return is that there really is nothing wrong with the PDF.

I understand this. And please don't think that I am incouraging phone rage or any such thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mklynds

I would deffinitely send that photo to Diesel and Demand a refund or format swap. Not saying you should be mean about it, but firm.

Customers have all the power in our world. Amazon would turn to dust if no one shopped there. Now I understand it is extremely unlikely that we could get an organized effort to enforce our changes. However if all of the ebook readers of MobileRead started holding the retailers to higher standards. It would spread and eventually the market will implement the changes demanded based on their greed. If every time a ebook reader received a less than perfectly formatted ebook, they returned it for refund or wrote a terse (not flaming, but again FIRM) email stating that if the quality of ebooks is unimportant to the retailer that they would take their business else where. Changes will happen. Retailer will have to put pressure on the Publishers and changes will happen.

Look at any pbook out there. Would you get home open your book to read it and realize that there are no chapter headers or section breaks etc... and just say oh well I guess it's the best I can get. No!!! You return the book!

What reason do retailers and publishers have to enhance quality and reduce price when readers just go, meh, everytime they get a poorly published ebook.

I realize I am ranting now and I realize that people do complain. I just don't see changes happening in a timely manner unless there is a concentrated effort on our part to make it happen.

Deposit .02
Mike L

moonlit · 07-08-2009, 10:00 AM

Lots of great feedback here, thanks!

I have mailed HarperCollins to see if they feel like doing anything about this, and I'll open uip a case with Sony International support center when they open this evening.

I've gotten the python scripts to work, so I have stripped the DRM off the PDFs I bought. Have been trying to get Calibre to fix them now by fiddling with the conversion options, but Calibre seems to remove the empty lines altogether in the conversion process.
Flipping the orientation doesn't help the bug, but the Small font does indeed get slightly larger. It's not a working solution though.

This bug seems by nature to be a pretty stupid programming bug by Sony, because there is enough information in the PDF to display the indents and 1/2 line breaks properly everywhere that doesnt have Sony software. Even the excerpts of e.g. "Thud!" on the Sony ebook store are flawed; chapter breaks are not distinguishable there.

I want to be able to strip the DRM off the books I buy. Not to be able to share them, really, I just want to be able to use any software I like to sync them to the Reader and avoid hassle. Stripping DRM for this purpose is legal in Norway, where I am purchasing the books.

So to avoid hassle I guess I should buy MOBI files instead, since they can be DRM stripped and converted to e.g. Epub in Calibre so I can get them on the Reader?

After I get answers from Sony and HarperCollins I'll try to be nice to Diesel Books and ask if they can swap my books for MOBI files. Worth a shot.

moonlit · 07-08-2009, 10:30 AM

Amazingly, the SoPDF program from 'theguru' fixed the problem, with its PDF-to-PDF conversion!
His thread on SoPDF here: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32066

Here's how the same text page looks in "small" type after being ground through SoPDF with these options: sopdf -i Wyrd_Sisters_stripped.pdf -m 3 -w

Abecedary · 07-08-2009, 10:40 AM

For the Discworld books, I ended up going for the ePub versions from BooksOnBoard for about the same price as Diesel's offerings. One problem with them is that there's a blank line between every paragraph break. This gets really annoying when dealing with a lot of short back-and-forth dialog. However, a quick conversion to LRF format in Calibre cleans it up really nicely. I'm sure the ePub files or stylesheets could be cleaned up a bit to avoid this, but since the LRF conversion was the first thing I tried and worked pretty well, I haven't bothered tearing into the ePub source files. Something to think about if you pick up any more in the series.

JSWolf · 07-08-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abecedary

For the Discworld books, I ended up going for the ePub versions from BooksOnBoard for about the same price as Diesel's offerings. One problem with them is that there's a blank line between every paragraph break. This gets really annoying when dealing with a lot of short back-and-forth dialog. However, a quick conversion to LRF format in Calibre cleans it up really nicely. I'm sure the ePub files or stylesheets could be cleaned up a bit to avoid this, but since the LRF conversion was the first thing I tried and worked pretty well, I haven't bothered tearing into the ePub source files. Something to think about if you pick up any more in the series.

It would be easier to just edit the stylesheet to remove this extra line space. That's what I would do.

07-07-2009, 10:08 AM	#1
moonlit Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oslo, Norway Device: Sony PRS-505	HarperCollins Discworld books don't display right on M/L Hello, Just bought Equal Rites and Wyrd Sisters off Diesel ebooks (in Adobe Digital Editions/PDF format), and the PRS-505 with latest firmware is not able to display them properly. The same problem is evident when reading using the Sony Library software. (I stripped the DRM off the ebooks) In "S" zoom mode, the page displays correctly but only occupies less than half of the screen; it's centered with a huge white border that makes the text much too small to read. In "M" and "L" modes the text is fine, but EVERY PARAGRAPH is now no longer indented like in "S", but instead translated to a 1/2 line shift. This is a problem because the 1/2 line shift is also used to separate viewpoints/"chapters" in the book, so when I use "M"/"L" I am not able to tell when one "chapter" ends and the next begins, leading to some confusion. Anyone else noticed this problem? It could be solved by a bit more clever formatting by the publisher, I guess, but it would be more elegant if Sony fixes their software instead! Attached Thumbnails Last edited by moonlit; 07-07-2009 at 10:15 AM. Reason: Added examples

07-08-2009, 10:30 AM	#13
moonlit Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oslo, Norway Device: Sony PRS-505	Amazingly, the SoPDF program from 'theguru' fixed the problem, with its PDF-to-PDF conversion! His thread on SoPDF here: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32066 Here's how the same text page looks in "small" type after being ground through SoPDF with these options: sopdf -i Wyrd_Sisters_stripped.pdf -m 3 -w Attached Thumbnails Last edited by moonlit; 07-08-2009 at 10:33 AM.

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07-07-2009, 01:12 PM	#2
tench Connoisseur Posts: 56 Karma: 5666 Join Date: Jun 2009 Device: Sony PRS-505	I'm kind of new at this, but it looks to me like what you are describing is just how PDF books work when you resize them on the reader. The same thing is described in this thread: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43393

07-07-2009, 01:18 PM	#3
DixieGal Hi There! Posts: 7,473 Karma: 2930523 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ft Lauderdale Device: iPad	Tench is right, maybe you can get them in LRF or ePub format. Once in a blue moon, I've been able to copy the text from PDF and paste it into MSWord, then save as txt. It is still ugly, but at least you can adjust the font and it will re-flow nicely to fit your reader. This trick doesn't work every time, approx 50% perhaps. But that is 50% more than nothing. Good Luck!

07-07-2009, 01:49 PM	#5
mklynds That guy, no not that guy Posts: 337 Karma: 2846 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Alberta, Canada Device: PRS600 Red	I would deffinitely send that photo to Diesel and Demand a refund or format swap. Not saying you should be mean about it, but firm. They are in the sales business and have to make you happy if they want you to keep spending money there. If they refuse I would send them an email stating that you will no longer give them your business and stand by it. I know this sounds a little "strong" but if people don't stand up and demand a higher quality ebook, we will never get a higher quality ebook.

07-07-2009, 01:51 PM	#6
Elfwreck Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,185 Karma: 25133758 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3 (Past: Kobo Mini, PEZ, PRS-505, Clié)	That's how reflow works for PDFs, and it's part of why PDF is not a great ebook format; to work well, it needs to be set at the viewer's preferred font size because reflow has problems. Reflow is also prone to combining short-line paragraphs, like dialog and poetry, into a single paragraph.

07-07-2009, 04:36 PM	#10
Angst Cannon Fodder Posts: 2,847 Karma: 51327832 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Probably a library Device: PRS-350, Kindle DX, Kindle Paperwhite	Reading in horizontal mode increases the size of the smallest print. It might be marginally better. Also, if you are computer savvy: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40238

07-08-2009, 10:00 AM	#12
moonlit Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oslo, Norway Device: Sony PRS-505	Lots of great feedback here, thanks! I have mailed HarperCollins to see if they feel like doing anything about this, and I'll open uip a case with Sony International support center when they open this evening. I've gotten the python scripts to work, so I have stripped the DRM off the PDFs I bought. Have been trying to get Calibre to fix them now by fiddling with the conversion options, but Calibre seems to remove the empty lines altogether in the conversion process. Flipping the orientation doesn't help the bug, but the Small font does indeed get slightly larger. It's not a working solution though. This bug seems by nature to be a pretty stupid programming bug by Sony, because there is enough information in the PDF to display the indents and 1/2 line breaks properly everywhere that doesnt have Sony software. Even the excerpts of e.g. "Thud!" on the Sony ebook store are flawed; chapter breaks are not distinguishable there. I want to be able to strip the DRM off the books I buy. Not to be able to share them, really, I just want to be able to use any software I like to sync them to the Reader and avoid hassle. Stripping DRM for this purpose is legal in Norway, where I am purchasing the books. So to avoid hassle I guess I should buy MOBI files instead, since they can be DRM stripped and converted to e.g. Epub in Calibre so I can get them on the Reader? After I get answers from Sony and HarperCollins I'll try to be nice to Diesel Books and ask if they can swap my books for MOBI files. Worth a shot.

07-08-2009, 10:40 AM	#14
Abecedary Exwyzeeologist Posts: 535 Karma: 3261 Join Date: Jun 2009 Device: :PRS-505::iPod touch:	For the Discworld books, I ended up going for the ePub versions from BooksOnBoard for about the same price as Diesel's offerings. One problem with them is that there's a blank line between every paragraph break. This gets really annoying when dealing with a lot of short back-and-forth dialog. However, a quick conversion to LRF format in Calibre cleans it up really nicely. I'm sure the ePub files or stylesheets could be cleaned up a bit to avoid this, but since the LRF conversion was the first thing I tried and worked pretty well, I haven't bothered tearing into the ePub source files. Something to think about if you pick up any more in the series.

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