Tim O'Reilly on why the Kindle should be an open book

anurag · 02-23-2009, 02:48 PM

http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/22/kin...s_oreilly.html

Quote:

Open allows experimentation. Open encourages competition. Open wins. Amazon needs to get with the program. Or, like AOL and MSN, Amazon will wind up another online pioneer who ends up a belated guest at the party it planned to host.

davidspitzer · 02-23-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anurag

http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/22/kin...s_oreilly.html

I wish Open always win, but as Apple has shown us in spades, is that people will gleefully trade open for, "slick" and "variety" and "ease of use"

If open always won then Irex would be the number one ereader not Sony or Kindle

If Amazon can get the entire book store available to the Kindle, the majority will buy it DRM or not, especially when you throw in the ubiquitous wireless and ease of use (no computer needed)

I own a Sony505 and a Kindle (gen1) and an Irex Dr1000. I love them each for what they can do, but I think from a market share standpoint Amazon = books = Win in the minds of most consumers

Penforhire · 02-23-2009, 04:20 PM

Right, "open" wins, and so THAT's why Microsoft owns so much market share (pick one -- OS, Office apps, browser, Xbox, programming languages)? Even in the face of "open" competitors such as the most excellent Open Office suite, which I do like. Nice try.

Apple is an even better example, more applicable for their hardware success.

I think Tim neglects to consider that e-readers are all about the books, not to mention the years of e-reader existence before the Kindle. Amazon is the 800 lb gorilla in books (and magazines, ...). This device is mostly a portal to the content. Any "open" solution that wants to displace the Kindle has to meet or exceed the Kindle's portal experience.

pilotbob · 02-23-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penforhire

Right, "open" wins, and so THAT's why Microsoft owns so much market share (pick one -- OS, Office apps, browser, Xbox, programming languages)?

I'm not sure what you mean. Microsoft is OPEN. The OS runs on any industry standard PC. Any device maker can create a driver for Windows.

Apple and Mac OS X is closed. It will only run on Mac hardware.

THAT's why Windows has such a huge market share, yes, because it is OPEN.

BOb

delphidb96 · 02-23-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I'm not sure what you mean. Microsoft is OPEN. The OS runs on any industry standard PC. Any device maker can create a driver for Windows.

Apple and Mac OS X is closed. It will only run on Mac hardware.

THAT's why Windows has such a huge market share, yes, because it is OPEN.

BOb

Of *COURSE* Mac OSX will only run on "Mac" hardware. That's why I've got a copy of 10.5.3 running on my HP Pavilion a1560n and plan to install it on the Acer Aspire One or Dell Mini-12 I'll be getting. (Hint, the MOST popular 'hackintosh' installation is on the Dell Mini-9 because not only is it the smoothest installation, but it's small enough to fit into a medium-sized purse.

)

Now if you mean *legally* it only runs on Mac hardware, you've got a point.

Derek

pilotbob · 02-23-2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Now if you mean *legally* it only runs on Mac hardware, you've got a point.

Derek

Yes, that's what I meant... just to have a point of course.

BOb

davidspitzer · 02-23-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Yes, that's what I meant... just to have a point of course.

BOb

The better analogy is not their computers but rather ipods and itunes - that was the point i was trying to make originally - people passed by all the "open" players on the market for ease of use and the "most complete" integration.

Everyone moaned about drm as they plunked down money for each new IPOD and continued to rain down money on Apple - the same will happen with Amazon if the get it right DRM or not...

pilotbob · 02-23-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidspitzer

Everyone moaned about drm as they plunked down money for each new IPOD and continued to rain down money on Apple - the same will happen with Amazon if the get it right DRM or not...

I knew what you meant. But, do keep in mind that "everyone" complaining about DRM is usually the technerati that have the opinion that all software should be free. Of course, as long as you pay them! The mainstream iPod user that buys at iTunes has no idea or cares about DRM in any way. They are also not going to pay $.30 per song to get the DRM free versions. They might pay it because they are higher quaility bit rates. MIGHT.

BOb

TheJohnNewton · 02-23-2009, 06:54 PM

Are we confuing open with no drm? Epub could be adopted by Amazon tomorrow and they could slap their own brand of drm on it to keep their books only useable on a Kindle.

=X= · 02-23-2009, 07:10 PM

While I agree with the "spirit" of Tim's blog. I disagree with his arguments are just too weak and incorrect.

Here is what I mean
1) First Amazon should be open, not the kindle. I suspect he wishes the Kindle to be 'open' so he can sell his books on the kindle. As a consumer I would be content with them just selling their content.
2) He claims there is more ePUB than MOBI. That is just not true, by far, at least here in the States MOBI is still the number 1 format. This might change in the future... but that's not today.

My only criticism for Amazon is their constant back order. They are constantly losing money because they cannot meet consumer demands.

=X= · 02-23-2009, 07:13 PM

@TheJohnNewton yes you are correct O'Reilly does sell MOBI
=X=

Penforhire · 02-23-2009, 07:14 PM

Bob, I took his "open" to mean open source. None of MS products are (that I know of) but plenty of opens source competition exists (Linux, Open Office, ...)

TheJohnNewton · 02-23-2009, 08:14 PM

O'Reilly already sells books for the Kindle. Give me a book in txt, html, or non-drm mobi and I have no issues reading it on my Kindle. Just look at all the wonderful books on this very site that work great on a Kindle. From that point of view how is the Kindle reader not already open?

My complaint with Amazon is they cripple their ebooks to work only on a Kindle. That is why I don't buy them and that seems to be Tim's point no? From that point of view they are very closed.

Sonist · 02-23-2009, 08:40 PM

One point here: I just ordered a Kindle, so that I can get a "Search" function, which PRS-505 lacks. I am also looking forward to purchasing a few books - but only in format I can "open," so that I can transfer to my iLiad, and to any future eReader I get.

So, I guess "open" may mean different things to different people.

BTW, I am really puzzled why ANYONE would purchase a proprietary DRM-ed book, which will go up in smoke if they change hardware vendors, or the company which sold it went belly up and was not benevolent enough to, or was prevented from, unlocking the files?

daffy4u · 02-23-2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonist

BTW, I am really puzzled why ANYONE would purchase a proprietary DRM-ed book, which will go up in smoke if they change hardware vendors, or the company which sold it went belly up and was not benevolent enough to, or was prevented from, unlocking the files?

If you're not big into re-reading, it's not as much of a deal, especially at the lower prices.

02-23-2009, 07:13 PM	#11
=X= Wizard Posts: 3,671 Karma: 12205348 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Galaxy S, Nook w/CM7	@TheJohnNewton yes you are correct O'Reilly does sell MOBI =X= Last edited by =X=; 02-24-2009 at 11:52 AM. Reason: Edit original post baed on post #13

02-23-2009, 08:14 PM	#13
TheJohnNewton Addict Posts: 256 Karma: 144599 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Boox Nova 2	O'Reilly already sells books for the Kindle. Give me a book in txt, html, or non-drm mobi and I have no issues reading it on my Kindle. Just look at all the wonderful books on this very site that work great on a Kindle. From that point of view how is the Kindle reader not already open? My complaint with Amazon is they cripple their ebooks to work only on a Kindle. That is why I don't buy them and that seems to be Tim's point no? From that point of view they are very closed. Last edited by TheJohnNewton; 02-23-2009 at 09:09 PM.

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02-23-2009, 04:20 PM	#3
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	Right, "open" wins, and so THAT's why Microsoft owns so much market share (pick one -- OS, Office apps, browser, Xbox, programming languages)? Even in the face of "open" competitors such as the most excellent Open Office suite, which I do like. Nice try. Apple is an even better example, more applicable for their hardware success. I think Tim neglects to consider that e-readers are all about the books, not to mention the years of e-reader existence before the Kindle. Amazon is the 800 lb gorilla in books (and magazines, ...). This device is mostly a portal to the content. Any "open" solution that wants to displace the Kindle has to meet or exceed the Kindle's portal experience.

02-23-2009, 06:54 PM	#9
TheJohnNewton Addict Posts: 256 Karma: 144599 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Boox Nova 2	Are we confuing open with no drm? Epub could be adopted by Amazon tomorrow and they could slap their own brand of drm on it to keep their books only useable on a Kindle.

02-23-2009, 07:10 PM	#10
=X= Wizard Posts: 3,671 Karma: 12205348 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Galaxy S, Nook w/CM7	While I agree with the "spirit" of Tim's blog. I disagree with his arguments are just too weak and incorrect. Here is what I mean 1) First Amazon should be open, not the kindle. I suspect he wishes the Kindle to be 'open' so he can sell his books on the kindle. As a consumer I would be content with them just selling their content. 2) He claims there is more ePUB than MOBI. That is just not true, by far, at least here in the States MOBI is still the number 1 format. This might change in the future... but that's not today. My only criticism for Amazon is their constant back order. They are constantly losing money because they cannot meet consumer demands.

02-23-2009, 07:14 PM	#12
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	Bob, I took his "open" to mean open source. None of MS products are (that I know of) but plenty of opens source competition exists (Linux, Open Office, ...)

02-23-2009, 08:40 PM	#14
Sonist Apeist Posts: 2,126 Karma: 381090 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The sunny part of California Device: Generic virtual reality story-experiential device	One point here: I just ordered a Kindle, so that I can get a "Search" function, which PRS-505 lacks. I am also looking forward to purchasing a few books - but only in format I can "open," so that I can transfer to my iLiad, and to any future eReader I get. So, I guess "open" may mean different things to different people. BTW, I am really puzzled why ANYONE would purchase a proprietary DRM-ed book, which will go up in smoke if they change hardware vendors, or the company which sold it went belly up and was not benevolent enough to, or was prevented from, unlocking the files?

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