eBook stores that offer PDF or Djvu or any fixed layout file format?

pata · 01-25-2021, 12:34 PM

Are there any eBook stores with new releases in formats besides ePub and mobi? Or do I have to buy the hard copy and get it scanned myself?

DNSB · 01-25-2021, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pata

Are there any eBook stores with new releases in formats besides ePub and mobi? Or do I have to buy the hard copy and get it scanned myself?

Google Play probably offers more fixed layout (PDF) books as far as I have noticed. OTOH, a reflowable ebook allows modifying the font size, margins, line spacing without having to pan and zoom to see that fixed page size in a window.

Some publications such as children's books work well with fixed layout but most fixed layout publications are aimed at 10" and larger screens. PDF for example is often aimed at letter/8.5"x11" or A4/210mmx297mm paper size. As an example, one using my tech manuals, the hardcopy has foldout diagrams that are A2 size while the PDF version uses a single page per diagram. Zooming the page to make it viewable also makes it near impossible to follow lines across the diagram.

pata · 01-25-2021, 01:38 PM

So it's only at the discretion of the publisher then? I know for example O'Reilly provides all their eBooks in five formats. No eBook store is offering conversions?

DNSB · 01-25-2021, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pata

So it's only at the discretion of the publisher then? I know for example O'Reilly provides all their eBooks in five formats. No eBook store is offering conversions?

Looking at O'Reilly's web page, it seems most of their content comes in ePub, mobi or PDF plus .apk for Android devices. While Baen for example supplies 7 different formats, the only one that might be considered as non-reflowable is the RTF option which is easily printable to PDF.

If you want conversions on non-DRMed content, look at programs such as calibre.

You could try to convince publishers/ebook vendors that there is enough of a market out there for non-reflowable ebooks but that's likely to be tilting at windmills.

pata · 01-25-2021, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNSB

Looking at O'Reilly's web page, it seems most of their content comes in ePub, mobi or PDF plus .apk for Android devices. While Baen for example supplies 7 different formats, the only one that might be considered as non-reflowable is the RTF option which is easily printable to PDF.

If you want conversions on non-DRMed content, look at programs such as calibre.

You could try to convince publishers/ebook vendors that there is enough of a market out there for non-reflowable ebooks but that's likely to be tilting at windmills.

But the publishers already have these fixed-layout ebooks in their possession; it’s basically the editor copies for the their hard copy versions. I get why Amazon wouldn’t bother with these formats but alternative ebook stores might consider it a value add, especially as these already offer these formats for some of their books.

Calibre isn’t really a solution as converting a flowable ebook to a fixed layout doesnt work well without professional copy editing.

I might just have to go the 1dollarscan option (not sure if you’re familiar with that in Vancouver — are there similar Canadian scanning companies)?

Thanks for your replies helping me think through this

JSWolf · 01-25-2021, 05:14 PM

These PDF you want work very poorly on any eInk device with a 6" screen. The PDF are too larger and the text too small. You'd need to buy a large screen Reader and that's not cheap.

Why is it you want PDF when most eBooks don't need to be in PDF as reflowable formats such as ePub or KF8 work well?

Quoth · 01-26-2021, 10:32 AM

PDFs are for proofing for paper, or producing paper. It's certainly tricky to produce certain kinds of content as reflowable text, which is what real ebooks do to suit different screen sizes. Many PDFs need 10" or better screens, though some work on 7" to 8".

PDFs are not eBooks. They are essentially paper books in electronic format. If you have some sort of crazy device that can't actually display real ebooks, then it's possible to convert real ebooks to PDFs. The other way round is very hard work. You may of course need to remove DRM.

MarjaE · 01-26-2021, 05:50 PM

Smashwords, Google Books, Onebookshelf.

Of course, being pdf, there's no guarantee that a device which can read some pdfs will be able to read these particular pdfs without crashing. I end up having to reprocess all the pdfs.

davidfor · 01-26-2021, 08:47 PM

@pata: I have to ask, why?

If you are after text books or similar with complicated formatting, I can see why. But, in that case, the question should be, "Where can I buy a book about topic x?" If you are talking about fiction, there is rarely any advantage in using PDF. And the lack of text flow and font resizing, to me at least, makes it a worse format to read.

Uncle Robin · 01-27-2021, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidfor

@pata: I have to ask, why?

I am genuinely interested in the answer to this question too. In the majority of cases, PDF negates all the things that make ebooks preferable to hard copy, for the reasons many have outlined above. I am fascinated and look forward to finding out why anyone would want PDF as a preferred or default choice for ebooks generally.

pata · 01-31-2021, 11:52 AM

Oh after DNSB and I going back and forth for a bit I didn't expect others to jump into the topic

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidfor

@pata: I have to ask, why?

This is why in a nutshell:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

PDFs... are essentially paper books in electronic format. If you have some sort of crazy device... [Many PDFs need 10" or better screens, though some work on 7" to 8".]

I loved paper books and I have a 20" 4K tablet. More crazy devices were just released these past few months e.g. a 13" foldable computer, a 10" color eink tablet, an 8" dual screen phone. I don't think PDF should be the default or preferred choice (although Adobe has added a PDF reflow feature it's pretty poor) but I think it should be a valid option

Quoth · 01-31-2021, 01:19 PM

But reflowable epubs will work on all of those better than PDF. A PDF is only ideal at 300 dpi to 600dpi and where the screen is the same size or a little bigger as thhe PDF page size, or large enough for a two page spread. Then it's often too heavy to read for long unless it's propped up. My 9.7" eink DXG and 10" LCD Lenovo tablet are both too heavy other than reference, no good for reading a novel.

A reflowable PDF spec is as pointless as a fixed layout epub spec. No doubt Adobe trying to get market share.

pata · 01-31-2021, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

But reflowable epubs will work on all of those better than PDF.

Reflowable epubs will work on all of those better than PDF except for replicating the paper book.

DNSB · 01-31-2021, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pata

Reflowable epubs will work on all of those better than PDF except for replicating the paper book.

Why would I want to replicate a paper book on an electronic device?

pata · 01-31-2021, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNSB

Why would I want to replicate a paper book on an electronic device?

You don't but I do

01-25-2021, 12:34 PM	#1
pata Zealot Posts: 145 Karma: 4840066 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: N/A	eBook stores that offer PDF or Djvu or any fixed layout file format? Are there any eBook stores with new releases in formats besides ePub and mobi? Or do I have to buy the hard copy and get it scanned myself?

01-31-2021, 01:19 PM	#12
Quoth the rook, bossing Never. Posts: 12,344 Karma: 92073397 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper11	But reflowable epubs will work on all of those better than PDF. A PDF is only ideal at 300 dpi to 600dpi and where the screen is the same size or a little bigger as thhe PDF page size, or large enough for a two page spread. Then it's often too heavy to read for long unless it's propped up. My 9.7" eink DXG and 10" LCD Lenovo tablet are both too heavy other than reference, no good for reading a novel. A reflowable PDF spec is as pointless as a fixed layout epub spec. No doubt Adobe trying to get market share. Last edited by Quoth; 01-31-2021 at 01:22 PM.

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01-25-2021, 01:38 PM	#3
pata Zealot Posts: 145 Karma: 4840066 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: N/A	So it's only at the discretion of the publisher then? I know for example O'Reilly provides all their eBooks in five formats. No eBook store is offering conversions?

01-25-2021, 05:14 PM	#6
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 76,395 Karma: 136466962 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	These PDF you want work very poorly on any eInk device with a 6" screen. The PDF are too larger and the text too small. You'd need to buy a large screen Reader and that's not cheap. Why is it you want PDF when most eBooks don't need to be in PDF as reflowable formats such as ePub or KF8 work well?

01-26-2021, 10:32 AM	#7
Quoth the rook, bossing Never. Posts: 12,344 Karma: 92073397 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper11	PDFs are for proofing for paper, or producing paper. It's certainly tricky to produce certain kinds of content as reflowable text, which is what real ebooks do to suit different screen sizes. Many PDFs need 10" or better screens, though some work on 7" to 8". PDFs are not eBooks. They are essentially paper books in electronic format. If you have some sort of crazy device that can't actually display real ebooks, then it's possible to convert real ebooks to PDFs. The other way round is very hard work. You may of course need to remove DRM.

01-26-2021, 05:50 PM	#8
MarjaE Guru Posts: 929 Karma: 53902736 Join Date: Jun 2015 Device: multiple	Smashwords, Google Books, Onebookshelf. Of course, being pdf, there's no guarantee that a device which can read some pdfs will be able to read these particular pdfs without crashing. I end up having to reprocess all the pdfs.

01-26-2021, 08:47 PM	#9
davidfor Grand Sorcerer Posts: 24,905 Karma: 47303822 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos	@pata: I have to ask, why? If you are after text books or similar with complicated formatting, I can see why. But, in that case, the question should be, "Where can I buy a book about topic x?" If you are talking about fiction, there is rarely any advantage in using PDF. And the lack of text flow and font resizing, to me at least, makes it a worse format to read.

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