10-09-2017, 04:49 AM | #1 |
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break/no-break and other spaces
I like to replace ellipses with spaced periods, since I don't like the usual ellipsis glyph, and it doesn't allow variations like . . . . or . . . ? or . . . !
Also to space between nested quotemarks, which otherwise look like a triple mark ’” but with space ’ ”. I see some books just use a normal space, but that allows a linewrap to occur, which should never be. So I have been using Aside from being no-break, otherwise it acts the same as a normal space; and so it stretches or compresses when the text is justified, and that sometimes looks odd. I just looked at a Random House epub that used thin spaces:   Which looks better I think. However, is it treated as a no-break space, in all formats -- epub and Kindle? While looking into this, I found this list of 17 Unicode space characters: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unic...ry/Zs/list.htm U+0020 SPACE U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE U+1680 OGHAM SPACE MARK U+2000 EN QUAD U+2001 EM QUAD U+2002 EN SPACE U+2003 EM SPACE U+2004 THREE-PER-EM SPACE U+2005 FOUR-PER-EM SPACE U+2006 SIX-PER-EM SPACE U+2007 FIGURE SPACE U+2008 PUNCTUATION SPACE U+2009 THIN SPACE U+200A HAIR SPACE U+202F NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE U+205F MEDIUM MATHEMATICAL SPACE U+3000 IDEOGRAPHIC SPACE Are all these valid in ebooks? I assume that only the first two are elastic in size, is that correct? And aside from nbsp, which are no-break? Apologies if this is a FAQ, please link if there is such. Last edited by AlanHK; 10-09-2017 at 04:51 AM. |
10-09-2017, 07:27 AM | #2 |
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If you make a sample ePub, I'll test it with ADE 2.0.1.
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10-09-2017, 11:16 AM | #3 |
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I don't like the glyph, either, and to my eye an ebook doesn't look right with spacing. I use space / three dots / space for an interrupted sentence, while ending sentences with four dots (i.e., one full stop following by the three for the ellipsis.
For the print edition, I revert to the traditional spacing, while ensuring an ellipsis is never broken at the end of a line. Be aware that under your plan you would have to use a normal space following a three-dot ellipsis, for fear of forcing hyphenation where you don't want it. |
10-09-2017, 11:44 AM | #4 |
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I prefer the ellipse character with no space. That solves the problem.
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10-09-2017, 01:26 PM | #5 |
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Try this:
1. In your .css stylesheet: Code:
.nowrap { text-indent: 0; display: inline-block; } Code:
<p>Nullam ut massa rutrum dolor placerat tempor accumsan eget <span class="nowrap">purus. . .</span></p> Regards Rubén |
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10-09-2017, 02:41 PM | #6 | |
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Quote:
That would work, but at the cost of making the code more complex. I guess if you think that's necessary then thinsp is otherwise a breaking space? I'll stay with nbsp if so. Last edited by AlanHK; 10-09-2017 at 02:44 PM. |
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10-09-2017, 04:42 PM | #7 |
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10-09-2017, 06:04 PM | #8 |
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Yes, thinsp is a breaking space. But if you work in Sigil, then you can create a clip for the ellipsis (with thinsp periods) and the the word to be enclosed together. Then you could apply the code in a blink (just a click of the mouse).
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10-09-2017, 06:26 PM | #9 | |
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Quote:
BR Last edited by BetterRed; 10-09-2017 at 06:34 PM. Reason: added last phrase |
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10-09-2017, 07:54 PM | #10 | |
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Quote:
Code:
some words here ... Code:
some words here... Rubén |
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10-10-2017, 12:35 AM | #11 | |
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Quote:
BR |
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10-10-2017, 05:35 AM | #12 | ||||||
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Quote:
It is also too common to run across fonts where the three-periods+spacing in the ellipsis looks vastly different than the single period: .… (PERIOD + ELLIPSIS) .... (FOUR PERIODS) Arial Narrow .… .... Courier New .… .... Garamond .… .... Verdana .… .... Georgia .… .... Quote:
Side Note: Things also get more complicated with language-/country-specific rules. For example, in French, they may use a NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE between opening/closing guillemets... but in Canadian French, a THIN SPACE. (See for example, LibreOffice's article explaining substituting in more compatible spaces, "Non Breaking Spaces Before Punctuation In French") Quote:
The next most common character would probably be the THIN SPACE, because that is officially used in a heck of a lot of languages (French). But again, may not render/display properly, so a NO-BREAK SPACE is a valid substitute. The usage of the many of those other "fixed-width spaces" like the EN QUAD, EM QUAD, EN SPACE, TWO-EM QUAD, [...] were mostly used for backwards compatibility with Xerox's standard character encoding... these SHOULD NOT be used for manual spacing in modern documents. Side Note: The only time these would be used in modern documents is in the VERY RARE case of Mathematics. See this fantastic post on the LaTeX Stack Exchange about using the proper spacing in Mathematics (also references the fantastic book, "Mathematics into Type"). Side Note #2: The fixed-width spaces were also measurements way back when things were manually typeset (think shoving metal boxes onto a rod). Putting them into documents now would be like manually typing pressing enter at the end of each line. It is POSSIBLE, but extremely unrecommended. :P Would probably cause a lot more harm than good. Side Note #2.5: Hmmm... I would also be interested to test Text-to-Speech and see if these weird spaces might confuse it. These are considered No-Break: NO-BREAK SPACE NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE See "Unicode Line Breaking Algorithm" (Unicode Standard Annex #14): https://www.unicode.org/reports/tr14/ (For example, another non-breaking space is the FIGURE SPACE.) If you take a look at Table 1, they give all the line-breaking categories + recommended rules. And breakdowns of each category. But these are RECOMMENDATIONS, that isn't what the renderers WILL do. For example, if you take a look at my Post #48, I came up with 3 test cases that broke a THIN SPACE differently. I didn't test on ereaders specifically, but I did test on Word/LibreOffice/Notepad++, InDesign, Firefox/Chrome/IE. Some rendered it as non-breaking, others rendered it as breaking, and others added a break between punctuation, others did not. I bet ereaders are an even more giant mess when dealing with these rarer spaces. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Tex2002ans; 10-10-2017 at 06:20 AM. |
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