Sigil eats my named entities...

Kaylee Skylyn · 08-29-2016, 10:59 PM

So I formatted the HTML to have all the curly quotes and em dashes to be the HTML code named entities but as soon as I do anything at all in the book view, or even just save it, close and open it later, it switches them all back to the quote mark and all my HTML disappears (for named entities)...why? Its getting frustrating.

I've read other threads here and others seem to have no problem having the HTML for named entities so what is going on? I tried downloading the latest version last night and that has done nothing. I have no plug ins loaded...do I need one? (I would have thought using HTML named entities was a basic need for an epub editor...) I may just go back to notepad at this rate. I thought the standard was to use the HTML code....but Sigil really does not seem to want to let me.

Turtle91 · 08-29-2016, 11:14 PM

You can go into edit/preferences(F5)/Preserve entities and add all the entities you want to keep as named.

I would like to ask why you would want to do that though - as far as I know there are only a few that MUST be entities amp, gt, lt ? It takes up much less space - and is more readable when editing - if those are kept as the actual character rather than an entity.

Cheers,

Kaylee Skylyn · 08-29-2016, 11:34 PM

Why I would want to is that is how I thought it was "suppose to be". Thought that was the "proper" way to do it. Never really heard a good reason why, just assumed they needed to be the HTML code to display properly across all platforms or something. It never really bothered me in my original work flow (was a quick find and replace) but if I have to do it after I split the doc into chapters THEN it gets annoying.

Toxaris · 08-30-2016, 03:16 AM

In the old days before Unicode the named entities served a good purpose. They would allow entering characters not in the codepage you had and they would usually still be rendered. Now, since ePUB must be unicode anyway, there is no strict need. You can use them, but it can seriously mess up your search/replace activities.
Like Turtle said, only a few are required like the named entities for &, < and >. I personally find the   also useful.

In ePUB3 names entities are no longer used by default. You can still use the Unicode entities or the direct Unicode characters though.

In general you are more than fine in not using them permanently. If I need an dash, I type in the named entity because it is easier to type. Sigil converts it to the Unicode character for me.

Kaylee Skylyn · 08-30-2016, 07:42 PM

Awesome. Thank you for the info. (really hard to find up-to-date standards, and reasoning, sometimes) It is much easier to proof read with the actual symbol rather than the unicode.

I believe Sigil came with the &nbsp as the only one in the "Exceptions" so I will not add any more for now.

Notjohn · 08-31-2016, 06:16 AM

Thank you for asking this question. I've of course seen this behavior and actually prefer it, to the point where I often use Sigil's symbols tool instead of entering the html tag, most of which I know by heart and many of which I have on macros for speed entry. But I never wondered deeply enough to research the question. Now I know!

08-29-2016, 10:59 PM	#1
Kaylee Skylyn Enthusiast Posts: 47 Karma: 415790 Join Date: Feb 2012 Device: android phone, Kobo Aura, Sony PRS 350	Sigil eats my named entities... So I formatted the HTML to have all the curly quotes and em dashes to be the HTML code named entities but as soon as I do anything at all in the book view, or even just save it, close and open it later, it switches them all back to the quote mark and all my HTML disappears (for named entities)...why? Its getting frustrating. I've read other threads here and others seem to have no problem having the HTML for named entities so what is going on? I tried downloading the latest version last night and that has done nothing. I have no plug ins loaded...do I need one? (I would have thought using HTML named entities was a basic need for an epub editor...) I may just go back to notepad at this rate. I thought the standard was to use the HTML code....but Sigil really does not seem to want to let me.

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08-29-2016, 11:14 PM	#2
Turtle91 A Hairy Wizard Posts: 3,130 Karma: 18727091 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Charleston, SC today Device: iPhone 11/X/6/iPad 1,2,Air & Air Pro/Surface Pro/Kindle PW & Fire	You can go into edit/preferences(F5)/Preserve entities and add all the entities you want to keep as named. I would like to ask why you would want to do that though - as far as I know there are only a few that MUST be entities amp, gt, lt ? It takes up much less space - and is more readable when editing - if those are kept as the actual character rather than an entity. Cheers,

08-29-2016, 11:34 PM	#3
Kaylee Skylyn Enthusiast Posts: 47 Karma: 415790 Join Date: Feb 2012 Device: android phone, Kobo Aura, Sony PRS 350	Why I would want to is that is how I thought it was "suppose to be". Thought that was the "proper" way to do it. Never really heard a good reason why, just assumed they needed to be the HTML code to display properly across all platforms or something. It never really bothered me in my original work flow (was a quick find and replace) but if I have to do it after I split the doc into chapters THEN it gets annoying.

08-30-2016, 03:16 AM	#4
Toxaris Wizard Posts: 4,520 Karma: 121692313 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Heemskerk, NL Device: PRS-T1, Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura	In the old days before Unicode the named entities served a good purpose. They would allow entering characters not in the codepage you had and they would usually still be rendered. Now, since ePUB must be unicode anyway, there is no strict need. You can use them, but it can seriously mess up your search/replace activities. Like Turtle said, only a few are required like the named entities for &, < and >. I personally find the   also useful. In ePUB3 names entities are no longer used by default. You can still use the Unicode entities or the direct Unicode characters though. In general you are more than fine in not using them permanently. If I need an dash, I type in the named entity because it is easier to type. Sigil converts it to the Unicode character for me.

08-30-2016, 07:42 PM	#5
Kaylee Skylyn Enthusiast Posts: 47 Karma: 415790 Join Date: Feb 2012 Device: android phone, Kobo Aura, Sony PRS 350	Awesome. Thank you for the info. (really hard to find up-to-date standards, and reasoning, sometimes) It is much easier to proof read with the actual symbol rather than the unicode. I believe Sigil came with the &nbsp as the only one in the "Exceptions" so I will not add any more for now.

08-31-2016, 06:16 AM	#6
Notjohn mostly an observer Posts: 1,515 Karma: 987654 Join Date: Dec 2012 Device: Kindle	Thank you for asking this question. I've of course seen this behavior and actually prefer it, to the point where I often use Sigil's symbols tool instead of entering the html tag, most of which I know by heart and many of which I have on macros for speed entry. But I never wondered deeply enough to research the question. Now I know!

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