Sunrise Viewer for PalmOS cancelled!

[Alexander Turcic]

Laurens decided to abandon the standalone Sunrise Viewer for Palm OS platforms. Here he explains why (taken from his blog):

The main reason is that I seriously doubt whether PalmOS will survive in the long term. At any rate, the news of late has not been favourable: PalmOS's dwindling market share, Sony exiting the US and European markets, PalmOne investigating the use of Linux and WinCE in their products, no OS6 devices on the horizon. Hopefully my assessment will turn out to be wrong, but I simply cannot afford to spend time, energy and money into marketing, supporting and maintaining a product for a platform with such an uncertain future.

I'm pouring all my energy into the Windows CE version of the viewer. I expect to release the public beta in February. I'm also investigating the feasibility of creating versions for SymbianOS and RIM Blackberry. These are attractive platforms from a marketing standpoint as they are both seeing significant growth.

Note that his decision does not affect the Sunrise desktop convertor, at least for now. Sunrise 0.4 is still due for release next month.

[mercedes]

What's next, DateBk6 gets cancelled? Seriously, PalmOne is guilty of scaring developers instead of helping them by saying that Cobalt devices won't be out for a while. I really don't want to buy a Pocket PC or a smartphone. I am hoping that Cobalt devices will come out soon and that developers will continue developing for Palm OS.

[Bob Russell]

Laurens,

I'm sad to see the negative signs in the PalmOS market also. And I agree with you that I hope for the future to be brighter than it looks. We're nowhere near the end, even in the bleakest scenario, but it doesn't look good. I am converted to PPC now because of all that, but it's a shame because I think PalmOS is actually better. It's not too late for a turnaround, and I'm cheering for big success for Palm companies (even as I bemoan the status quo in the Palm world.)

BUT.... the selfish part of me is ecstatic about the news that you are going to work on a WindowsCE version of the viewer. Yippee!!!! Sunrise was one of the things that I was sad about leaving behind with the move to PPC. I hadn't even tried it yet, but boy does it look great. I'm looking forward to seeing it. In fact, even those with PPC devices should cheer for Palm's success because the competition improves PDAs and smart phones all around across every platform. Time will tell.

In the meantime, hopefully we'll find out that Mercedes is right and PalmOS Cobalt devices will pop up and grow and that market share will strengthen and the signs will turn positive. The original success of Palm was more spectacular than a simple turnaround. Why not?!

[hacker]

Originally Posted by BobR

In the meantime, hopefully we'll find out that Mercedes is right and PalmOS Cobalt devices will pop up and grow and that market share will strengthen and the signs will turn positive. The original success of Palm was more spectacular than a simple turnaround. Why not?!

I've been hearing some very distressing news from developers who have personally seen and used Cobalt on the first (as-yet-unreleased, non-smartphone) device. The concensus is that OS6.1 is several orders of magnitude slower than any OS5 device currently out.

It doesn't look good for Palmsource, and none of the OEMs wants Cobalt.

Here is a quote from a very well-known Palm developer:

"They've been struggling for three years to build a new OS and they took the worst path at every turn, by rewriting their own kernel, their own compilers, their own standard library, and more. They did everything they could to make it fail."

[peterg22]

Originally Posted by mercedes

.. I really don't want to buy a Pocket PC or a smartphone. I am hoping that Cobalt devices will come out soon and that developers will continue developing for Palm OS.

I agree. Having previously owned a Windows CE device I ditched it as soon as I could and went back to Palm: a Sony Clie TJ37 ironically. It would be a real shame to see Palm disappear - maybe they should just open-source it and release it to the community !

Also I don't want a converged device - yet. Apart from the implications of losing both my PDA and my phone with all that personal info on board I'm not convinced that battery life is good enough. I can get two days of reasonable use out of the PDA (one day if I use the wireless), and about the same for my Symbian-based Nokia 6600 (as long as I don't talk too much).

[hacker]

Originally Posted by peterg22

Also I don't want a converged device - yet. Apart from the implications of losing both my PDA and my phone with all that personal info on board I'm not convinced that battery life is good enough.

Converged devices will always be the wrong decision in the end anyway, for several reasons.

1. You can't decouple the converged parts and replace them with better, upgraded, other equivalents from other manufacturers or other form factors.
2. You always get a sub-par device in all regards. If you want a keyboard, you end up with a huge PDA (to compensate for the larger keyboard), or a microscopic keyboard, to compensate. Want a PDA/Phone? Now you either get a ridiculously-small screen, so you can fit the "phone" in your pocket, or you get an enormous phone, to compensate for the PDA-sized screen.
3. Battery life, as you mention, will significantly suffer in all respects, until we make some pretty monumental advances in battery life and consumption (OLEDS is one approach, there are some others).
4. Major major security hazard in many environments, to have a PDA coupled with a phone. Though this is all going to go away, because most government and validated environments are starting to ban ALL electronic devices outright, because these present an enormous risk to their environment (camera phone in a pharmaceutical company for example, taking a few quick snapshots of lab notebook data).

Basically, converging a device severely limits what you can do with it, despite the myths these vendors try to sell you on. Here is one scenario: You buy a Treo650 with Sprint service, and then relocate to say... New Zealand. Now your phone no longer works, and you have an overly-heavy PDA, with less than 50% functionality.

With a non-converged device, you can connect any phone to it, assuming you have the right connectivity options, such as Bluetooth or IrDA, for example. If your provider changes, simply get a new phone, and connect it to the same PDA you're used to.

I personally prefer not to have to have the phone and PDA attached in one device, because I have more flexibility with them separate. I can have the phone in my bag, and use my PDA to make calls through the phone (or for Internet access/email), and I can use my Bluetooth headset, no wires, no muss, and exceptional battery life. If I want a new headset, or a new PDA, and want to keep my phone, I just switch out the bits I need with new bits. The same goes for keyboards; there are dozens to choose from, if you decouple the keyboard from the device proper.

Yes, there are those that say "But I don't WANT to carry a phone and a PDA!", and I can see their point, but they are only a percentage of the rest of us. If the whole market changes to suit that percentage, the rest of us (and there are quite a significant number) will be sticking with our existing devices, or ones that do not "force" convergence. There are times I ONLY want to carry my PDA, or ONLY carry my phone, and converged devices don't allow this at all.

[Bob Russell]

Amen. Well Said!!!!!!!!

[gadgetguru]

I disagree with hackers and some of his assumption:
1. There's nothing that says one component of a smartphone cannot be used in another device.
2. It will really depend on the manufacturer ingenuity. Handspring was able to put a decent keypad in the Treo 600. HP was able to put a regular sized screen on the 64xx series. Both devices are not that much larger from a regular PDA.
3. As long as its removable, battery time should not be a problem. In fact smartphone have better battery life than most PDAs if you don't talk on the phone too much because most smartphones have 1700-1800mah batteries while PDA have at most 1400mah (HPs) and 950mah (Palms).
4. Same goes for PDAs. But some OEMs like HP are knows the enterprise enough, that they includes features like biometric security in their handhelds to solve some of those worries. It really about forward-thinking something that's currently lacking in PalmOne and PalmSource leadership.

True, a Sprint phone will not work in New Zealand. But a T-Mobile Treo 650 will and in most other countries. And with the ipaq 64xx, even if you are shut out of cellular networks, you can still connect via Wifi (treo 650 can too via bluetooth and compatibl;e phone).

In the end, smartphones from Palm and Pocket PC are two different beast. Pocket PC are devided into WM Smartphone and WM Phone edition. While Palms smartphone (note: Treo) are basically regular Palm PDA with phone built-in. So if the Treo sells, the Palm developer community would also benefit, since any program they have written for the Palm PDA will also work on the Treo (now that it have the same screen resolution as most PDAs).

Smartphone sells, that's why PalmOne is concentrating on that market. I read somewhere that in 2004, there's something like 15 million smartphone sold and Treo accounted for maybe 1-2 million, the majority of the rest - Nokia symbian 60 phones. It really boil down to price, if Treo is priced cheaper or have a cheaper cousin, and PalmOne has the right connection with the rioght telco, it a big market. It really a good bet for PalmOne.

What's not a good bet for PalmOne was basically abandoning the high-end PDA market. The T5 could have been great even without OS6. If it was faster and didn't break many applications. Basically, PalmOne seem to take what many like about the platform and break many of them - Graffitti 1 was no longer allowed (not everyone like G1 but many do); soft rest times was lengthen to even longer than Window Mobile does; Card backup (a basic function to many) was broken and no fix is available yet; change in connector, etc. Unlike Microsoft which pampers its developers, Palmsource and PalmOne don't...emulators are released late if ever...T5 simulator is still in limbo. Palmsource even charges (and tries to make money) on its developer conferences. I has more rants but it's time for some work so I leave it at that...

[Laurens]

As long as people are still buying them, there will always be companies who continue to release new PDA's. The advantages Hacker sums up are all very real. Still, the PDA has always been a niche product and has never been able to break into the mass market. The average Joe/Jane just doesn't feel compelled to buy a PDA. The mobile phone is a much more commonplace and "fashionable" item. I would say that SmartPhones are more an evolution of the mobile phone rather than a replacement for PDA's. My only worry is that PDA development will come to a standstill because companies pour all their R&D into SmartPhones.