If big 4 (6?) are so scared of Amazon why don't they ...

Barty · 10-30-2014, 02:11 PM

... just get together and build their own e book store. Partner with an OEM to produce their own reader, create their own DRM (or not). Sure it'll be a huge investment but they can start small and slowly ramp up. Lay the ground work for the future. Stop being hostage to Amazon.

If people can't get their latest Stephen king from Amazon and have to download it from big4books.com that's what they'll do.

Nate the great · 10-30-2014, 02:23 PM

Because that would involve actual work?

Jessica Lares · 10-30-2014, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Because that would involve actual work?

And money!

ApK · 10-30-2014, 02:48 PM

Because, as has been observed in some recently linked articles, the are NOT afraid of Amazon in any way. They WANT Amazon. They want Amazon's customers, and marketing, and storefront, and service, and they want it on THIER terms.
What they want is to leap out of the parked car and cry "whiplash" while writhing in faux-pain to try get as favorable a contract with Amazon as the can possibly can.

They are Gollum, cowering behind Frodo, trying to convince him that Sam is the enemy.

eschwartz · 10-30-2014, 03:00 PM

And because the BWM publishers have spent decades trying to avoid having anything to do with their customers. It would set a bad example if they did an about-face now.

pwalker8 · 10-30-2014, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barty

... just get together and build their own e book store. Partner with an OEM to produce their own reader, create their own DRM (or not). Sure it'll be a huge investment but they can start small and slowly ramp up. Lay the ground work for the future. Stop being hostage to Amazon.

If people can't get their latest Stephen king from Amazon and have to download it from big4books.com that's what they'll do.

If Amazon is so afraid of the big 4(6), why don't they just refuse to sell their books and only sell Amazon authorized indies? Maybe because, like the big publishers, they aren't stupid? Businesses tend to be most efficient when they stick to their core business. That doesn't even go into the possible legal hassles that the publishers would face if they actually did that (and you better believe that Amazon would be lobbying for legal action by the DOJ if that ever happens).

bgalbrecht · 10-30-2014, 03:31 PM

Since most of them are fixated on putting DRM into all of their ebooks, they wouldn't be able to sell to Kindle owners. I'm not sure what the percentage of eInk readers are Kindles, but I'm sure it's something like 60-75% percent.

gbm · 10-30-2014, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And because the BWM publishers have spent decades trying to avoid having anything to do with their customers. It would set a bad example if they did an about-face now.

You are not the customer for the BWM publishers their customers are the Bookstores, and you are the customer for the Bookstore.

bernie

eschwartz · 10-30-2014, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbm

You are not the customer for the BWM publishers their customers are the Bookstores, and you are the customer for the Bookstore.

bernie

No, bookstores are the middleman.

ApK · 10-30-2014, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbm

You are not the customer for the BWM publishers their customers are the Bookstores, and you are the customer for the Bookstore.

bernie

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

No, bookstores are the middleman.

I hope that winky means you realize that those are not mutual exclusive.

fjtorres · 10-30-2014, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

Because, as has been observed in some recently linked articles, the are NOT afraid of Amazon in any way. They WANT Amazon. They want Amazon's customers, and marketing, and storefront, and service, and they want it on THIER terms.

Right.

What they are, however, increasingly afraid of is indie publishing.
All the recent articles about the relevance of agents, the indispensability of publishers, and how hard and "expensive" publishing is are a sign that they are noticing all the sales that aren't going to their books. At Amazon, Kobo, Nook, and even (irony of ironies) Apple.

Right now, Indie books in both e- and p- are worth well over a billion a year (and growing) and that is a billion a year (and growing) that isn't going to tradpub. When you see reports that ebook sales growth is slowing, it is because a lot of the growth in ebooks overall isn't going to trackable tradpubs but to indies.

The BPHs and their proxies focus on Amazon, thinking that if they can get Amazon to bow before them they'll be able to marginalize indies at Amazon and put an end to the indie problem. Which is wrong. Just as ebooks are here to stay, so are Indies.

And while they waste time and money fighting Amazon over how much money to squeeze out of their sales the real threat continues to grow totally beyond their control.

The time to build up ebook alternatives to Amazon was 2010.
By now whether they do so or not is meaningless because any challenger to kindle is going to have to sell indie titles or fail. Right now, 30-40% of all ebooks sold are indie and that number is not going down. And few people are going to limit their options by committing to an ebookstore without indie titles.

murg · 10-30-2014, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barty

... just get together and build their own e book store. Partner with an OEM to produce their own reader, create their own DRM (or not). Sure it'll be a huge investment but they can start small and slowly ramp up. Lay the ground work for the future. Stop being hostage to Amazon.

If people can't get their latest Stephen king from Amazon and have to download it from big4books.com that's what they'll do.

Most, if not all, of the big publishers have their own websites where they will sell you ebooks.

They're just no good at it. And that's an understatement.

eschwartz · 10-30-2014, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

I hope that winky means you realize that those are not mutual exclusive.

A winky means I am inviting you to "think about it". If I had meant to be teasing/joking I would use sticks-out-tongue.

Is this another of your rants about the perceived arbitrary meaning of words?

A middleman is only a valuable so-called-customer in context with the sales they make to real customers.

Customers are the people who a product is targeted at. BWM publishers make books. Books are targeted at consumers. Not bookstores, bookstores don't want books -- they want customers for books.

Bookstores cannot possibly be the customers for books.

A middleman may be a customer, but certainly not for the thing they are acting as a middleman for. Which is what matters here.

fjtorres · 10-30-2014, 04:47 PM

The october 2014 authior earnings report has a pair of charts that highlight the real threat to tradpub that indie titles represent:

http://authorearnings.com/report/oct...ings-report-2/

1- Of the top selling 120K titles, the BPHs provide 18% of the titles, indies 17%, and another 10% are from single author publishing houses (indies most likely, but not openly). 54% of the top-selling titles come from non-BPH tradpub. Amazon itself publishes 1% of the titles.

2- When it book sales, the BPHs (with all their big names and "marketing" account for 35% of unit sales, pure indies 32%, single author publishers 5%, Amazon 10%, and non-BPH tradpub only 18%.

Back in 2010, just before the conspiracy, the BPHs accounted for well over half (about 60%) of books Amazon sold. Which is why Amazon acquiesced to Agency. Today, they barely account for a third. Which is why Amazon isn't sweating any threats of BPH-owned ebookstores. By the time the BPHs get around to building any credible alternative (and not just another Bookish fiasco), any sales they might lose to the BPHs will be a drop in a lake compared to the bigger market.

Anything they do, short of all 4 pulling their titles simultaneously, will simply be too little, four years too late.

Th BPHs had one shot at controlling the ebook market and they wasted it on an illegal conspiracy that only made Amazon stronger.

Btw, notice how non-BPH tradpub titles underperform both BPH and pure indie titles?
That is the Canary in the Coalmine™.
Smaller and weaker, with less big name authors, they are the ones most immediately at risk from indie title competition for both reader sales and, more critical, manuscripts.

Messing with Amazon is a side show and a distraction.
But if tradpub wants to go that way...

(Shrug)

fjtorres · 10-30-2014, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murg

Most, if not all, of the big publishers have their own websites where they will sell you ebooks.

They're just no good at it. And that's an understatement.

Worse, putting up a website does nothing to bring in actual buyers.

As BAEN discovered, ebook buyers by and large prefer to go a full catalog ebookstore. Kindle, Nook, Kobo, Apple...

And they actually have a strong brand and good customer loyalty.
The BPHs? Not even close.

10-30-2014, 02:11 PM	#1
Barty doofus Posts: 2,533 Karma: 13088847 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kindle Voyage	If big 4 (6?) are so scared of Amazon why don't they ... ... just get together and build their own e book store. Partner with an OEM to produce their own reader, create their own DRM (or not). Sure it'll be a huge investment but they can start small and slowly ramp up. Lay the ground work for the future. Stop being hostage to Amazon. If people can't get their latest Stephen king from Amazon and have to download it from big4books.com that's what they'll do.

10-30-2014, 02:48 PM	#4
ApK Award-Winning Participant Posts: 7,355 Karma: 68329346 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: NJ, USA Device: Kindle	Because, as has been observed in some recently linked articles, the are NOT afraid of Amazon in any way. They WANT Amazon. They want Amazon's customers, and marketing, and storefront, and service, and they want it on THIER terms. What they want is to leap out of the parked car and cry "whiplash" while writhing in faux-pain to try get as favorable a contract with Amazon as the can possibly can. They are Gollum, cowering behind Frodo, trying to convince him that Sam is the enemy. Last edited by ApK; 10-30-2014 at 02:58 PM.

10-30-2014, 04:47 PM	#14
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	The october 2014 authior earnings report has a pair of charts that highlight the real threat to tradpub that indie titles represent: http://authorearnings.com/report/oct...ings-report-2/ 1- Of the top selling 120K titles, the BPHs provide 18% of the titles, indies 17%, and another 10% are from single author publishing houses (indies most likely, but not openly). 54% of the top-selling titles come from non-BPH tradpub. Amazon itself publishes 1% of the titles. 2- When it book sales, the BPHs (with all their big names and "marketing" account for 35% of unit sales, pure indies 32%, single author publishers 5%, Amazon 10%, and non-BPH tradpub only 18%. Back in 2010, just before the conspiracy, the BPHs accounted for well over half (about 60%) of books Amazon sold. Which is why Amazon acquiesced to Agency. Today, they barely account for a third. Which is why Amazon isn't sweating any threats of BPH-owned ebookstores. By the time the BPHs get around to building any credible alternative (and not just another Bookish fiasco), any sales they might lose to the BPHs will be a drop in a lake compared to the bigger market. Anything they do, short of all 4 pulling their titles simultaneously, will simply be too little, four years too late. Th BPHs had one shot at controlling the ebook market and they wasted it on an illegal conspiracy that only made Amazon stronger. Btw, notice how non-BPH tradpub titles underperform both BPH and pure indie titles? That is the Canary in the Coalmine™. Smaller and weaker, with less big name authors, they are the ones most immediately at risk from indie title competition for both reader sales and, more critical, manuscripts. Messing with Amazon is a side show and a distraction. But if tradpub wants to go that way... (Shrug) Last edited by fjtorres; 10-30-2014 at 05:01 PM.

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10-30-2014, 02:23 PM	#2
Nate the great Sir Penguin of Edinburgh Posts: 12,375 Karma: 23555235 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: DC Metro area Device: Shake a stick plus 1	Because that would involve actual work?

10-30-2014, 03:00 PM	#5
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85397180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	And because the BWM publishers have spent decades trying to avoid having anything to do with their customers. It would set a bad example if they did an about-face now.

10-30-2014, 03:31 PM	#7
bgalbrecht Wizard Posts: 1,806 Karma: 13399999 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: US Device: Nook Simple Touch, Kobo Glo HD, Kobo Clara HD, Kindle 4	Since most of them are fixated on putting DRM into all of their ebooks, they wouldn't be able to sell to Kindle owners. I'm not sure what the percentage of eInk readers are Kindles, but I'm sure it's something like 60-75% percent.

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