Serious Bugs in T5 Software

Bob Russell · 10-09-2004, 11:27 AM

Serious problems with the new PalmOne T5 are being reported .

So bad that changing the default view in the built-in calendar app can force a hard reset. And a hard reset apparently clears all the internal flash memory also. That also means backup files better be kept on an external card.

One T5 tester there was very frustrated after over 11 hard resets. (Don't know if they were all related to this one bug or not.)

Hard to tell if it's a sign of big problems or if it will be fixed with a simple software patch, but there are some other signs that the device was rushed out. For example it seems to indicate vibration alarms, which are not available on the T5. Even the marketing papers said it had a voice recorder, which it doesn't.

Have they rushed this out too fast and created some junk? Or maybe they planned to use Cobalt and had to pull back to Garnet late in the game?

If they don't resolve the complaints, I'll have to consider passing on the T5 (even though I'm a buyer desperate to upgrade.)

Seems like my alternatives are:
* Buy a Zodiac2. Only problem is that it doesn't have a slim case that fits in my pocket. Plus other little annoyances like the clips to hold the sylus.
* Wait for the next round of PalmOne devices or Zodiacs next year.
* Buy a Dell Axiom X50 PPC when it comes out.

To be honest, as much as I love the Palm platform, I'm seriously considering PPC if these T5 problems don't go away. I see only signs of danger ahead -- cutbacks at PalmSource, delays in Cobalt, problems with T5, focus on smartphones not traditional PDAs I want, signs that programmers think PPC is easier to code for, many more apps on PPC like ReplayRadio player and emulators and games and VOIP phone, etc etc.

I like PalmOS. I'm excited about up and coming stuff like Sunrise. I want Palm companies to succeed, and I think it's the better platform with a better philosophy. I'm even willing to stick with them even if they're a product cycle or two behind on price and hardware. But if they just can't get their act together, I'll have to look elsewhere until they do.

Of course, to add some balance, we don't know if this is a big problem or not. They might be able to fix it soon and make the T5 stable, Then all my other concerns are not show stoppers because I like PalmOS enough to bear with some deficiencies or concerns about the future.

Gee, just when I thought my waiting was almost over for a new PDA. Now I have to wait not just for availablility of a T5, but to see if it's any good. If an x50 comes out soon, I might get it because I'm sick of waiting. It would at least hold me over until I find out if PalmOne or Zodiac has anything for us in the future.

I'm very, very frustrated and impatient!....

Colin Dunstan · 10-09-2004, 11:42 AM

Common, Bob, give them time. palmOne had only what, like one year, to announce the T5? Just wait another year and I promise you the bugs will be fixed (ok, you will have to pay another $400 for the upgraded model, but who is counting).

Alexander Turcic · 10-09-2004, 11:54 AM

Morpheus, I didn't know you could be so sarcastic...

Bob, believe me, I am fully sharing your frustration!

gadgetguru · 10-09-2004, 12:38 PM

It took them more than 10 months to make the T5 (it was supposedly already way into its development cycle when OS6 gone gold last December), and it seem it was not beta tested properly... The bug seem to be easily triggered, and surely any serious beta test would have caught it in the first week or so...

So much for quality control... Some m505 comes with the cradle static issue. The Tungsten C takes two ROM upgrade to fix the BOSS issue. The Tungsten T3, takes a month to solve the frying SD issue, and the crazy graffitti on some still await a fix almost a year after. The Zire 72 paint peels off in less than a month of typical usage. If they are manufacturing vaccines, they would have closed by regulators years ago...lucky them, they are not...

gadgetguru · 10-09-2004, 12:39 PM

This probably seal any chance that I will upgrade to the T5. I will probably defer buying a PDA this year and look to buying a second PC (preferably a Shuttle XPC)...

Bob Russell · 10-12-2004, 10:33 AM

Hope is renewed for those of us wanting to buy the new PalmOne Tungsten T5. PalmOne is aware of the calendar glitch and is indeed working on a patch fix. Hopefully it will be a real fix and they will take care of the digitizer and delete confirmation dialog problems also.

Here's what was posted on the PalmOne support site when I searched for FAQ items for the T5...

Quote:

Solution ID: 1115

Tungsten™ T5 locks up when Calendar is launched

Did you set your Calendar's default view to start on Month? We are investigating an issue that has been discovered with the Tungsten T5 handheld: when you change the default display option in Calendar to Month, your handheld may freeze the next time you launch Calendar.

What to do
palmOne engineers are working on a patch to correct this issue that occurs when you sent Month as the Calendar's default view. In the mean time, follow these steps:

To un-freeze your device, perform a soft reset.

Change the conduit action for the Backup conduit to Desktop Overwrites Handheld (here's how to change conduit action).

Perform a HotSync operation.

The Calendar should now work as it did before it locked up. Once your Calendar is restored, do not set the Calendar default view to start on Month. If you do so, you will experience the lock up again.

You'll notice that other preferences for your handheld (such as color theme, button assignments and sounds & alerts) have reverted to whatever they were at the time you last synchronized. This is because the Saved Preferences file on your handheld was replaced by the older Saved Preferences file on your desktop computer. This is expected behavior.

Change the conduit action for the Backup conduit to the setting it had before you changed it above.

Help! It didn't work.
If your handheld still locks up when you launch the Calendar application, it's possible that the Saved Preferences file on your desktop computer contains the Calendar setting that displays Month view as default (and thus causes the device to lock up when you launch Calendar). This may happen if you've performed a HotSync operation after setting the Calendar's default view, but before performing the steps above. Try these steps:

Perform a hard reset. A hard reset will delete all data on your handheld. Make sure your data is backed up properly before performing this reset. It's okay if you can't launch Calendar when you perform the HotSync operation; the calendar data itself should be backed up if you synchronize properly.

On your desktop computer, locate your user folder.

In your user folder, open the Backup folder.

In the Backup folder, delete the file named Saved_Preferences.prc (it may appear as simply "Saved_Preferences"). Note: When you delete Saved_Preferences.prc, this will remove all preferences stored on your handheld, including preferences for any third-party applications. Depending on the application, these may include:
Registration codes
Game high scores
User interface settings
You'll need to re-enter this information after you finish these steps. If you need help retrieving registration codes¹, please contact the third-party developer, who will usually email the code to you. Check with the third-party developer if you experience problems using third-party software after you delete the Saved_Preferences.prc file.

Perform a HotSync operation.

The Calendar should now work as it did before it locked up. Once your Calendar is restored, do not set the Calendar default view to start on Month. If you do so, you will experience the lock up again.

You'll notice that other preferences for your handheld (such as color theme, button assignments and sounds & alerts) have reverted to whatever they were at the time you last synchronized. This is because the Saved Preferences file on your handheld was deleted with the hard reset, and it wasn't restored from your desktop computer. This is expected behavior.

Change the conduit action for the Backup conduit to the setting it had before you changed it above.

drc54 · 10-13-2004, 07:04 AM

I guess I'm in the same boat. Still relying heavily on my M515, desprate for an upgrade, but is it the T5? I was actually was contemplating a T3, but they haven't really made the price that attractive. On the Singapore web page, the T5 is quoted at S$718, which is a tad cheaper than my M515 bought almost 3 years ago. The T3 is still quoted at the same S$718 price. No change for the last 6 months or so, after PalmOne tried to sell the T3 packaged together with a Zire21 for about S$50 more. You know, the his and her bundled package, but come on, give me a break.

Somehow this is telling me PalmOne really can't sell their wares.

Pride Of Lions · 10-26-2004, 11:37 PM

I thought I'd let you guys know (and P1, if they're listening) that I'm ready for a new PDA (tired of the digitizer/screen problems.) I decided to stay within the Palm OS family, because as a Mac guy it doesn't make sense to get a mini PC (even if there's third party software to make the Sync smooth.)

With Sony out of the U.S. market, the only other choice was Tapwave's Zodiac. I like the spec's, except for a few things...

1) The size is bulky compared to the Tungsten T family, but I like the full-time tablet form.

2) Going from Palm OS 5.4 to OS 5.2 seems like a more drastic step back in time than it really is. I miss being able to write on the screen and that little toolbar that I can press on to check on the battery life and such.

So, if P1 gets it together in the next incarnation I may come back to the fold. But since I need a working Palm OS device now, the Zodiac2 does it for me. And with the 2 year thingy from CompUSA, if any company comes out with a better solution, I can upgrade.

I know, hope springs eternal.
POL9A

Bob Russell · 10-27-2004, 12:21 AM

Good luck with the Zodiac, POL. I was very tempted by them also. I think they're great PDAs, and you might find that the form factor is even better than you hoped... people are reporting that it looks much better and smaller in person than in the pictures.

I can tell you first hand that if you do more than the basic PIMs (e.g. if you have some other software like ShadowPlan that you depend on) you would have had some work to do if you went to the PPC side of things like I'm trying right now. The jump to Zodiac should be fun and straightforward.

But what is the CompUSA 2 year thingy???!!!!!

Pride Of Lions · 10-27-2004, 12:47 AM

I do appreciate the support.

The Z2 is really bulky as a PDA, and with the leather case it's virtually unpocketable. It'll fit in my pocket if I don't kneel down (to tie shoes or for anything else.)

Other than that, and a few 3rd party software tweaks (or inconsistancies), all is well in POL-land. I think I'd have severe problems if i"d have gone through with my PPC purchase (or if Costco actually had in stock the 2 HP h4455's (?) their computer said they had. I suspect that they "fell of the truck" touching nose.) Good luck with your transition, Bob.

I really wanted to stay with Palm OS because of my familiarity with it and because of the many 3rd party software programs I've invested in over the years. I'm really glad TapWave's Zodiac was around. I've not been much of a Sony PDA fan before, but I missed their selections when I was looking for a replacement PDA for my T|3. And, as much as I loathe smartphones and convergence, I do have to admit that I'd considered the Treo 600 more than once. (If it weren't for the small, lo-res screen, the non-BT, and the fact that I already have 2 great phones (S-E T637 and T610), I might've bitten on the hook.)

The "CompUSA thingy" that I so eloquently alluded to is the PDA-buyer-insurance-extended-warranty shill that the salespeople get gold stars in their little competitions for. I told the guy that it didn't interest me at that price point ($99.00) and he asked me at what price would it appeal to me. I told him half, that for $50.00 it might sound reasonable. He told me that he himself was authorized to cut the price by $15.00, but his manager might accept a deal. He came back and told me that his manager would take $40.00 off the the price of the Zodiac2 if I bought the PDA warranty at full price. I decided to finally buy an extended warranty for a PDA and if P1 or Tapwave deide to put out my perfect PDA over the next 2 years, then I'll use the extended warranty to switch over to it. To be honest, if TapWave comes out with a Zodiace just like it is, but with Wi-Fi, then I might just explode with happiness.

Imploding with frustration now by not being able to HotSync. Come on Missing Sync tech support!!
POL9A

10-09-2004, 11:27 AM	#1
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Serious Bugs in T5 Software Serious problems with the new PalmOne T5 are being reported . So bad that changing the default view in the built-in calendar app can force a hard reset. And a hard reset apparently clears all the internal flash memory also. That also means backup files better be kept on an external card. One T5 tester there was very frustrated after over 11 hard resets. (Don't know if they were all related to this one bug or not.) Hard to tell if it's a sign of big problems or if it will be fixed with a simple software patch, but there are some other signs that the device was rushed out. For example it seems to indicate vibration alarms, which are not available on the T5. Even the marketing papers said it had a voice recorder, which it doesn't. Have they rushed this out too fast and created some junk? Or maybe they planned to use Cobalt and had to pull back to Garnet late in the game? If they don't resolve the complaints, I'll have to consider passing on the T5 (even though I'm a buyer desperate to upgrade.) Seems like my alternatives are: * Buy a Zodiac2. Only problem is that it doesn't have a slim case that fits in my pocket. Plus other little annoyances like the clips to hold the sylus. * Wait for the next round of PalmOne devices or Zodiacs next year. * Buy a Dell Axiom X50 PPC when it comes out. To be honest, as much as I love the Palm platform, I'm seriously considering PPC if these T5 problems don't go away. I see only signs of danger ahead -- cutbacks at PalmSource, delays in Cobalt, problems with T5, focus on smartphones not traditional PDAs I want, signs that programmers think PPC is easier to code for, many more apps on PPC like ReplayRadio player and emulators and games and VOIP phone, etc etc. I like PalmOS. I'm excited about up and coming stuff like Sunrise. I want Palm companies to succeed, and I think it's the better platform with a better philosophy. I'm even willing to stick with them even if they're a product cycle or two behind on price and hardware. But if they just can't get their act together, I'll have to look elsewhere until they do. Of course, to add some balance, we don't know if this is a big problem or not. They might be able to fix it soon and make the T5 stable, Then all my other concerns are not show stoppers because I like PalmOS enough to bear with some deficiencies or concerns about the future. Gee, just when I thought my waiting was almost over for a new PDA. Now I have to wait not just for availablility of a T5, but to see if it's any good. If an x50 comes out soon, I might get it because I'm sick of waiting. It would at least hold me over until I find out if PalmOne or Zodiac has anything for us in the future. I'm very, very frustrated and impatient!....

10-26-2004, 11:37 PM	#8
Pride Of Lions just kinda geeky Posts: 381 Karma: 30 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Oakland, California Device: iPhone	Sorry P1, you've missed the boat. I've bypassed the T\|5 for the Z2. I thought I'd let you guys know (and P1, if they're listening) that I'm ready for a new PDA (tired of the digitizer/screen problems.) I decided to stay within the Palm OS family, because as a Mac guy it doesn't make sense to get a mini PC (even if there's third party software to make the Sync smooth.) With Sony out of the U.S. market, the only other choice was Tapwave's Zodiac. I like the spec's, except for a few things... 1) The size is bulky compared to the Tungsten T family, but I like the full-time tablet form. 2) Going from Palm OS 5.4 to OS 5.2 seems like a more drastic step back in time than it really is. I miss being able to write on the screen and that little toolbar that I can press on to check on the battery life and such. So, if P1 gets it together in the next incarnation I may come back to the fold. But since I need a working Palm OS device now, the Zodiac2 does it for me. And with the 2 year thingy from CompUSA, if any company comes out with a better solution, I can upgrade. I know, hope springs eternal. POL9A

10-27-2004, 12:47 AM	#10
Pride Of Lions just kinda geeky Posts: 381 Karma: 30 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Oakland, California Device: iPhone	Hey, Thanks Bob! I do appreciate the support. The Z2 is really bulky as a PDA, and with the leather case it's virtually unpocketable. It'll fit in my pocket if I don't kneel down (to tie shoes or for anything else.) Other than that, and a few 3rd party software tweaks (or inconsistancies), all is well in POL-land. I think I'd have severe problems if i"d have gone through with my PPC purchase (or if Costco actually had in stock the 2 HP h4455's (?) their computer said they had. I suspect that they "fell of the truck" touching nose.) Good luck with your transition, Bob. I really wanted to stay with Palm OS because of my familiarity with it and because of the many 3rd party software programs I've invested in over the years. I'm really glad TapWave's Zodiac was around. I've not been much of a Sony PDA fan before, but I missed their selections when I was looking for a replacement PDA for my T\|3. And, as much as I loathe smartphones and convergence, I do have to admit that I'd considered the Treo 600 more than once. (If it weren't for the small, lo-res screen, the non-BT, and the fact that I already have 2 great phones (S-E T637 and T610), I might've bitten on the hook.) The "CompUSA thingy" that I so eloquently alluded to is the PDA-buyer-insurance-extended-warranty shill that the salespeople get gold stars in their little competitions for. I told the guy that it didn't interest me at that price point ($99.00) and he asked me at what price would it appeal to me. I told him half, that for $50.00 it might sound reasonable. He told me that he himself was authorized to cut the price by $15.00, but his manager might accept a deal. He came back and told me that his manager would take $40.00 off the the price of the Zodiac2 if I bought the PDA warranty at full price. I decided to finally buy an extended warranty for a PDA and if P1 or Tapwave deide to put out my perfect PDA over the next 2 years, then I'll use the extended warranty to switch over to it. To be honest, if TapWave comes out with a Zodiace just like it is, but with Wi-Fi, then I might just explode with happiness. Imploding with frustration now by not being able to HotSync. Come on Missing Sync tech support!! POL9A

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10-09-2004, 11:42 AM	#2
Colin Dunstan Is papyrophobic! Posts: 1,926 Karma: 1009999 Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: USA Device: Dell Axim	Common, Bob, give them time. palmOne had only what, like one year, to announce the T5? Just wait another year and I promise you the bugs will be fixed (ok, you will have to pay another $400 for the upgraded model, but who is counting).

10-09-2004, 11:54 AM	#3
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,163 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	Morpheus, I didn't know you could be so sarcastic... Bob, believe me, I am fully sharing your frustration!

10-09-2004, 12:38 PM	#4
gadgetguru Addict Posts: 214 Karma: 6370 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Asia Device: Tungsten T5	It took them more than 10 months to make the T5 (it was supposedly already way into its development cycle when OS6 gone gold last December), and it seem it was not beta tested properly... The bug seem to be easily triggered, and surely any serious beta test would have caught it in the first week or so... So much for quality control... Some m505 comes with the cradle static issue. The Tungsten C takes two ROM upgrade to fix the BOSS issue. The Tungsten T3, takes a month to solve the frying SD issue, and the crazy graffitti on some still await a fix almost a year after. The Zire 72 paint peels off in less than a month of typical usage. If they are manufacturing vaccines, they would have closed by regulators years ago...lucky them, they are not...

10-09-2004, 12:39 PM	#5
gadgetguru Addict Posts: 214 Karma: 6370 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Asia Device: Tungsten T5	This probably seal any chance that I will upgrade to the T5. I will probably defer buying a PDA this year and look to buying a second PC (preferably a Shuttle XPC)...

10-13-2004, 07:04 AM	#7
drc54 Enthusiast Posts: 41 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Singapore Device: Palm m515, now TX	I guess I'm in the same boat. Still relying heavily on my M515, desprate for an upgrade, but is it the T5? I was actually was contemplating a T3, but they haven't really made the price that attractive. On the Singapore web page, the T5 is quoted at S$718, which is a tad cheaper than my M515 bought almost 3 years ago. The T3 is still quoted at the same S$718 price. No change for the last 6 months or so, after PalmOne tried to sell the T3 packaged together with a Zire21 for about S$50 more. You know, the his and her bundled package, but come on, give me a break. Somehow this is telling me PalmOne really can't sell their wares.

10-27-2004, 12:21 AM	#9
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Good luck with the Zodiac, POL. I was very tempted by them also. I think they're great PDAs, and you might find that the form factor is even better than you hoped... people are reporting that it looks much better and smaller in person than in the pictures. I can tell you first hand that if you do more than the basic PIMs (e.g. if you have some other software like ShadowPlan that you depend on) you would have had some work to do if you went to the PPC side of things like I'm trying right now. The jump to Zodiac should be fun and straightforward. But what is the CompUSA 2 year thingy???!!!!!

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