Deal Breakers for a New User

JEMelby · 07-01-2007, 09:41 PM

I've been tracking the progress of E-Readers for a number of years. I have read books on one of the original B&W Handspring Treos, an original Palm Pilot 5000, notebooks, desktops, and most recently, a Cingular 8525. The one thing these all had in common... Mind-numbing, skull-cracking, eye-ripping STRAIN! I crave the portability and capacity of an electronic reader, but inevitably, I relaps to just reading paper books.

Such is it that I have been following e-ink with great hope, and limitless expectation. I've been lurking in the forums, reading the gadget blogs, and doing the research. Here's what I have decided are my deal breakers:

1) Lack of word search. One of the benifits of such a device would be the ability to tote around about 80 pounds worth of reference material, and that just isn't usefull unless I have word search capability. Never mind that most of the references I refere to are in PDF format. I can work around that. But it does raise an interesting question: Will any of these readers output from their USB ports to a printer?

2) Lack of Vizplex. Not generally being an early adapter, and being prone to researching the crap out of any purchase greater than $200, I have concluded that the latest standard in e-ink screen will negate one of my earlier concerns: Screen refresh/flip speed. I think, considering my experience with the current model Sony, that the new screens will give it just enough kick to make it worthshile.

So, it comes to the Bookeen and the NUUT. Even with the new screen, the Sony is a NOGO 'cause of the lack of word search. I hope the NUUT comes to the U.S. soon. If not, the 'Bookeen' looks pretty 'keen'. Perhaps I will hide and watch a few months more

JSWolf · 07-01-2007, 10:07 PM

Why is it that word search is so important? When was the last time anyone was able read a paper book and have the ability to word search?

mogui · 07-01-2007, 10:26 PM

Word search enhances the utility of such things as Wikipedia and dictionaries. If you want to carry reference material it is very useful. I used to make my own index inside the back cover of books I found particularly useful or insightful.

Search is a "nice to have" feature.

NatCh · 07-01-2007, 10:43 PM

Since my primary point of interest is in reading, the absence of a word search isn't really a concern to me at all.

At the same time, I can understand the interest from another perspective: if I were looking for an "information appliance" for reference material usage, then the word search would be extremely important to me.

The devices that are out presently simply aren't aimed at that purpose, though. I think there will be such devices eventually, it's just a matter of how eventually.

For the moment, I'd suggest that anyone looking for a device for that purpose not get one of these devices, they'll just be disappointed, and that's no good for anyone.

RWood · 07-01-2007, 11:02 PM

Welcome to MobileRead JEMelby. It is not often I have come across anyone with a Coleco ADAM (With high-speed digital tape drive!) I haven't seen one in over 20 years.

I agree with NatCh, for the purposes you listed none of the current or announced e-ink devices will serve your purposes.

Robert Marquard · 07-02-2007, 12:17 AM

1. Most of the devices are only USB slaves so they cannot access a printer (another slave device) at all. Printing is also not allowed for most of the DRMed books available. It does not make sense to add a printing capability. Printing to any printer is also a big chunk of software which may not fit the cramped memory of the device.
2. Vizplex should come soon.

nekokami · 07-02-2007, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Why is it that word search is so important? When was the last time anyone was able read a paper book and have the ability to word search?

Perhaps, for some, the point is not to replace paper books, but to improve upon them. In any case, I tend to assume that when people state their preferences this strongly, they have good reason for them.

NatCh · 07-02-2007, 12:53 AM

A reasonable assumption. However, I like to explore the reasons too. It allows me the opportunity to understand them ... even if I find the reasons uncompelling, they can be ... educational.

HarryT · 07-02-2007, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEMelby

I have concluded that the latest standard in e-ink screen will negate one of my earlier concerns: Screen refresh/flip speed. I think, considering my experience with the current model Sony, that the new screens will give it just enough kick to make it worthshile.

I'm very surprised to hear that this is a "concern" for you - I honestly cannot recall coming across ANYBODY who regards the screen refresh speed of the Sony Reader as a problem. It's certainly no slower than turning the page of a paperback book, for example. You say "considering my experience with the current model Sony" - may I ask what that experience actually is? Have you just looked at one in a store, or read a book on one "for real"? I'm sure you'll find that if you use one "for real" it's not something that you'll even notice.

mogui · 07-02-2007, 05:25 AM

I doubt that it is practical, given the slow refresh nature of Eink, to have any sort of input mechanism other than button controls. Touchscreens and onscreen keyboards require a screen refresh mechanism that is not apparent to the user. This makes text input, and thus reference libraries, impractical.

Will the next generation of Eink resolve this issue?

HarryT · 07-02-2007, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mogui

I doubt that it is practical, given the slow refresh nature of Eink, to have any sort of input mechanism other than button controls. Touchscreens and onscreen keyboards require a screen refresh mechanism that is not apparent to the user.

The iRex Iliad has a touch screen and stylus input, so it seems that it can be done. Judging from the experiences on the Iliad forum, however, "digital ink" input requires lots and LOTS of screen refreshes which reduces the time between charges to only a few hours.

I think personally that you are right - for a fiction book reader (which is what the Sony Reader is), hardware buttons work a lot better than a touch screen. They don't require screen refreshes to operate and there's also the benefit that the lack of a touch screen makes the device a lot physically "tougher".

bojan · 07-02-2007, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEMelby

So, it comes to the Bookeen and the NUUT. Even with the new screen, the Sony is a NOGO 'cause of the lack of word search.

What makes you think that Bookeen will have word search -- I haven't seen any mentioning of that. Bookeen will have even less buttons than Sony, so the word search implementation would be much harder.

JSWolf · 07-02-2007, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bojan

What makes you think that Bookeen will have word search -- I haven't seen any mentioning of that. Bookeen will have even less buttons than Sony, so the word search implementation would be much harder.

Good point. Im fact, I don't see any reader at the moment that uses E-Ink that will word search. Now I think the folks over at the iLiad camp could probably cobble something together to allow searching non-DRM books. But right out of the box, not that we know of.

wallcraft · 07-02-2007, 10:08 AM

Does "word search" mean searching in the current e-book only? If, so I am surprised that it isn't supported in all e-book readers since they must have a (more or less) plain text representation of the document. Is the problem text entry? It is available in Adobe Reader for PDFs, although some older academic papers are just images of the journal pages and so are unsearchable, and in FBReader. I assume FBReader will word search on the iLiad, as it does on other devices.

HarryT · 07-02-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

Is the problem text entry?

Yes, precisely. The Sony Reader, for example, has no keyboard. It's controlled by menus which have a maximum of 10 entries on them, in which one selects an entry by pressing a hardware button labelled "1" to "10".

07-01-2007, 09:41 PM	#1
JEMelby Save the Stone Tablet Posts: 31 Karma: 23 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Planet Earth (Mostly) Device: Coleco ADAM (With high-speed digital tape drive!)	Deal Breakers for a New User I've been tracking the progress of E-Readers for a number of years. I have read books on one of the original B&W Handspring Treos, an original Palm Pilot 5000, notebooks, desktops, and most recently, a Cingular 8525. The one thing these all had in common... Mind-numbing, skull-cracking, eye-ripping STRAIN! I crave the portability and capacity of an electronic reader, but inevitably, I relaps to just reading paper books. Such is it that I have been following e-ink with great hope, and limitless expectation. I've been lurking in the forums, reading the gadget blogs, and doing the research. Here's what I have decided are my deal breakers: 1) Lack of word search. One of the benifits of such a device would be the ability to tote around about 80 pounds worth of reference material, and that just isn't usefull unless I have word search capability. Never mind that most of the references I refere to are in PDF format. I can work around that. But it does raise an interesting question: Will any of these readers output from their USB ports to a printer? 2) Lack of Vizplex. Not generally being an early adapter, and being prone to researching the crap out of any purchase greater than $200, I have concluded that the latest standard in e-ink screen will negate one of my earlier concerns: Screen refresh/flip speed. I think, considering my experience with the current model Sony, that the new screens will give it just enough kick to make it worthshile. So, it comes to the Bookeen and the NUUT. Even with the new screen, the Sony is a NOGO 'cause of the lack of word search. I hope the NUUT comes to the U.S. soon. If not, the 'Bookeen' looks pretty 'keen'. Perhaps I will hide and watch a few months more

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07-01-2007, 10:07 PM	#2
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 74,913 Karma: 131375774 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Why is it that word search is so important? When was the last time anyone was able read a paper book and have the ability to word search?

07-01-2007, 10:26 PM	#3
mogui eNigma Posts: 503 Karma: 1335 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Philippines Device: HTC G1 Android FBReader	Word search enhances the utility of such things as Wikipedia and dictionaries. If you want to carry reference material it is very useful. I used to make my own index inside the back cover of books I found particularly useful or insightful. Search is a "nice to have" feature.

07-01-2007, 10:43 PM	#4
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Since my primary point of interest is in reading, the absence of a word search isn't really a concern to me at all. At the same time, I can understand the interest from another perspective: if I were looking for an "information appliance" for reference material usage, then the word search would be extremely important to me. The devices that are out presently simply aren't aimed at that purpose, though. I think there will be such devices eventually, it's just a matter of how eventually. For the moment, I'd suggest that anyone looking for a device for that purpose not get one of these devices, they'll just be disappointed, and that's no good for anyone.

07-01-2007, 11:02 PM	#5
RWood Technogeezer Posts: 7,233 Karma: 1601464 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Device: Sony PRS-500	Welcome to MobileRead JEMelby. It is not often I have come across anyone with a Coleco ADAM (With high-speed digital tape drive!) I haven't seen one in over 20 years. I agree with NatCh, for the purposes you listed none of the current or announced e-ink devices will serve your purposes.

07-02-2007, 12:17 AM	#6
Robert Marquard Delphi-Guy Posts: 285 Karma: 1151 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany Device: iLiad, Palm T3	1. Most of the devices are only USB slaves so they cannot access a printer (another slave device) at all. Printing is also not allowed for most of the DRMed books available. It does not make sense to add a printing capability. Printing to any printer is also a big chunk of software which may not fit the cramped memory of the device. 2. Vizplex should come soon.

07-02-2007, 12:53 AM	#8
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	A reasonable assumption. However, I like to explore the reasons too. It allows me the opportunity to understand them ... even if I find the reasons uncompelling, they can be ... educational.

07-02-2007, 05:25 AM	#10
mogui eNigma Posts: 503 Karma: 1335 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Philippines Device: HTC G1 Android FBReader	I doubt that it is practical, given the slow refresh nature of Eink, to have any sort of input mechanism other than button controls. Touchscreens and onscreen keyboards require a screen refresh mechanism that is not apparent to the user. This makes text input, and thus reference libraries, impractical. Will the next generation of Eink resolve this issue?

07-02-2007, 10:08 AM	#14
wallcraft reader Posts: 6,975 Karma: 5183568 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD	Does "word search" mean searching in the current e-book only? If, so I am surprised that it isn't supported in all e-book readers since they must have a (more or less) plain text representation of the document. Is the problem text entry? It is available in Adobe Reader for PDFs, although some older academic papers are just images of the journal pages and so are unsearchable, and in FBReader. I assume FBReader will word search on the iLiad, as it does on other devices.

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