09-04-2012, 01:36 PM | #61 | |
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I think it comes back to whether the person is a heavy reader or not. People who don't read a lot can compromise. People like me, who read one or two books per day will not consider using a tablet. Older people who already have eyesight problems find that using an active screen for prolonged reading is detrimental to their vision. Many older people are using eReaders - check and see who is borrowing books at your local library. There is another issue. Many older people can't handle technology, they can't use a computer or a tablet effectively, they can't use a TV remote effectively in many cases, but they can use an eReader as it is so simple to operate. . (As long as someone else loads the books onto it.) My Mother-in-Law is in a retirement "Resort" . When I visit I see dozens of old ladies with eReaders. The staff love them - it keeps them busy for hours every day. |
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09-04-2012, 01:49 PM | #62 | |||
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In a cutthroat industry they will keep it on the backburner. E Ink Holdings Inc., while this is happening will just sit and twiddle their thumbs or maybe take up knitting until Amazon et al., is ready. Not going to happen. |
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09-04-2012, 01:58 PM | #63 | |
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What we are pointing out is the simple reality. As much as we enjoy eInk, we are clearly in the minority. Regular readers are a niche. Readers who are as heavy as you (reading upwards of a book a day) are a small niche even among readers. A business cannot thrive in the long run when their customer base is that small. Not unless they are making a killing on every device sold (which eReader manufacturers aren't). Add in the fact that even by your own admission, their own target demographic only buys devices rarely, and that is not a model that will survive for long. Sales will keep falling and falling, until eventually the numbers are small enough that it is no longer feasible to cater to that market. |
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09-04-2012, 02:11 PM | #64 | |||
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Your attitude, in many ways, is reminiscent of the former CEO of RIM. He, too, refused to see a rapidly emerging market (the iPhone and the subsequent smartphone explosion) as a threat, claiming that the people who bought those were not like their customers. Their customers were loyal. Their customers wanted something only BlackBerry could give them. Their customers couldn't care less about the damn iPhone. Just a pretty toy, that's all that is. Quote:
Last edited by afa; 09-04-2012 at 02:13 PM. |
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09-04-2012, 03:34 PM | #65 |
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Which retail companies? Your view seems slightly parochial. As I said, this may be true for Australia but in continental Europe e-books and e-readers are still in a rather early stage - and these markets are considerably bigger than Australia's. A company that sells its products across the globe can compensate for a saturated market by increasing its sales to other markets. However, in many markets there is the danger that e-books are going to be associated with tablets and smartphones if e-ink cannot establish itself there. I believe you are kidding yourself if you believe that the more casual readers will not want to read on a tablet. Larger smartphones like Samsung's Galaxy SIII and its Note are probably also quite competent readers.
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09-04-2012, 03:43 PM | #66 | |
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300 dpi /= eInk mass produced book /= pulp paperbacks web IMAGES /= eInk (or web) font TEXT Again, e-reader screens would be substantially better if they had: - higher resolution (dpi); doubling the linear resolution from 167 dpi (Pearl 6") to 334 dpi would be fine. - higher contrast (currently only 10:1 for Pearl); deep black on glossy paper can be 300:1; 100:1 on eInk would be very nice. 10:1 is too low for too many viewing conditions. - 256 gray levels instead of 16 (useful for both text and graphics) - faster page turns; I don't know if this is a problem with the display itself or the software. The 800MHz TI OMAP processor in the Nook ST is fast enough, if it has enough RAM to lay out the next page ahead of time. On the color and brightness of light issue, I encourage everyone to have a look at http://stereopsis.com/flux/ (from the guy who wrote Picasa, purchased by Google). That is a nice little utility for a PC/iPad/iPhone used at night. Blue light keeps you awake more than redder light. Even the LEDs in the Nook STG should have more yellow, green, and red, and less blue. "White" LEDs are not good for use at night, they have too much blue. |
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09-04-2012, 03:52 PM | #67 |
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The odd thing to me about forums like this is that every discussion seems to become polemical.
I don't know about you, but I'm here chiefly for information and to discuss ideas. If I'd intended to validate my manhood in a (conceptually) sweaty tough-off, this would be a rather odd parking lot in which to make the attempt. My learned colleague on one side feels that e-ink is here to stay. My learned colleague on the other disagrees. Why the exasperation? No one has to agree and no one's intellect need be compared to garden vegetables. The idea that eink is stagnating due to monopolization by the company that makes eink screens is interesting, but doesn't every player from Apple to Samsung to Microsoft aspire to become a monopoly no matter how charitable they try to appear? Why is E Ink Corp. being singled out for having attained that temporary position for a limited market? Would that that were not so, but it's so for a lot of other companies, too. Welcome to Durm & Stranglehold, 2012 A.D. In a sense, eink was always outmoded by other screen tech, so its enduring niche is created by a lack of versatility in other media. The retina display goes a long way toward increasing the versatility of LCD, as have an improved refresh rate and other factors, but it doesn't erase the need for eink completely -- not yet, at least. The eink screen seems, in essence, a specialized substitute for physical media. The newest iterations of the screen even look and feel like mutating pieces of laminated paper. It's very possible we'll use a suite of devices for different purposes and that something like eink will persist in some capacity, either as a device with controls, digital paper, or a kind of paper-thin display which we'll attach to other devices as we do rubber skins to smartphones. There will always be times when the eye wishes to continue reading but is fatigued by bright screens. That physical necessity seems to imply we need eink or whatever will replace it over time. In one sense, it might well be that e-readers are a transitional device to accommodate the habits of earlier generations. But on the nether hind, many people from every generation would prefer not to gaze at backlit screens 100% of the time, and physical books can create too much clutter in an increasingly synoptic-urban world. Would it be unacceptable for me to say I think both sides are partly correct? Deranged Hermit: Thanks for the useful post. Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 09-04-2012 at 04:24 PM. |
09-04-2012, 03:55 PM | #68 | |
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Well it has been fun - well maybe not fun, but distracting. You have an opinion, I have one that differs, only time will determine who is correct. This thread started with a complaint that there was not enough innovation and "new" features - with regard to the screen. I contend that there will be a number of device changes, with my contention supported by patent applications, prototypes, market demand, and press releases from several of the players involved. You choose to dismiss all of this and in some strange way try to use RIM and its problems to support your thesis. RIM has been imploding for years, Amazon has strong growth. I don't see a connection. At this stage there seems to be little point in going further. We will just bore everyone. |
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09-04-2012, 04:04 PM | #69 |
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The complaint about lack of innovation is as valid as it was at the beginning of the thread. As all manufacturers seem to be stuck with the same display it is fair to assume that this situation is caused by E-ink's lack of innovation and product variations.
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09-04-2012, 04:29 PM | #70 |
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The lack seems to be that of mass-producible innovation. I'd love to see couture e-ink devices that could be tailored to individual needs. Perhaps then we'd see that high-res e-ink screen in the field instead of annually at E Ink Corp.'s table of possibilities.
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09-04-2012, 04:56 PM | #71 | |
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I also agree with your above statement; it is the eReader producers, not E Ink alone, that is to blame for the stagnation of eReader displays. The price wars between B&N, Amazon, Kobo, Sony, and others have caused a real drop in eReader quality. Everyone is trying to sell the $50 reader today, and you just won't get the quality that you would with a $200 device. The Kindle 2 was a solid, beautifully made eReader. The Kindle Touch is not (the speakers have even noticeably gotten worse from generation to generation). Until readers protest getting the same devices, with only superficial upgrades, over and over again, we will be left with "satisfaction," but not excellence. I would like to hear what you think after the Kindle press conference! Do return! |
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09-04-2012, 04:57 PM | #72 | |
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09-04-2012, 05:05 PM | #73 | |
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iPads (and other glare type IPS TFTs) are *HORRIBLE* outside in sunlight, eInk is fine. The same applies to most multi-lightsource situations like offices and such, where you can't control point-source lights and have to read a lot. And no, it's not an opinion, it's an optical ergonomics fact that can easily be (and has been) tested objectively. The reflections and glare cause both extra micro-saccades in eye muscles and tire eyes out faster. So, no. Glare IPS displays are not the answer for actual reading of small point size text, diagrams, etc. requiring accurate optical tracking. Movies for 2 hours, and casual web surfing maybe. Reading under varied conditions, day-in, day-out. Definitely not. Of course you *can* do it, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. As such, I'm also very disappointment that the breakthroughs in color-displays and higher resolution screens has stalled almost completely. Where are the full-hd 1920x1080 resolution, even 12-bit colour eInk displays? Those would be great for reading. I couldn't care less about video or web-browsing, but reading books, with colour diagrams and photos without the constant need to zoom-in/zoom-out. Now that would be a breakthrough. None of the current readers on the market get anywhere near close as this. And there's nothing announced in the pipeline that I know of. That's why I'm almost ready to break down and just buy an Asus TF700 (1900x1200, glare IPS) and a stack of different type of anti-reflection screen protectors to play with / try out with it. The Moore's law clearly hasn't been introduced to eInk displays, that's for sure. If we had $50-$100 high res colour dsiplays available from every maker, these things would sell like tons, even if you couldn't check your facebook on them. There are enough of people out there who just want to do real stuff on their displays, and not just play with iApps So, if anybody knows of a big enough (9-11") with high resolution (1920x1200 minimum) display reader with a matte screen, please chime in. Now I'm limping along with my Sony 650, but it's really only good for text-only books in epub form. PDFs are a total pain to read on that and maths/physics papers or books with colour diagrams : forget it. |
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09-04-2012, 05:10 PM | #74 | |
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Sounds like we are both waiting around for improvements to displays that might be 2-3 years out. |
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09-04-2012, 05:31 PM | #75 | |
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"eReaders might not have wanted to compete with tablets, but they have been dragged into it, nonetheless, even if not by choice." |
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