How do I include "path" in a Calibre catalog CSV? - Page 2

DNSB · 06-02-2024, 10:35 PM

As far as I am aware, the only OS that used a database for the filesystem was the Pick OS where everything was an object in the database. The proposed WinFS filesystem for Windows Vista was supposed to be based on a relational database but never made it out of an early beta since it was a resource hog. One comment from a beta tester was that it made a hard drive run at floppy disk speeds.

BetterRed · 06-02-2024, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

. . .

In an ideal wold you could copy arbitrary files actually into to the database.

Is that you Keir

Ah! well-a-day! O wall adieu!
The wall is wold, my grief is new.

William Barnes - https://www.poetrynook.com/poem/wold-wall

BR

Quoth · 06-02-2024, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetterRed

My take is that the data, i.e the library, belongs to me, calibre is a tool I use to organise, manipulate and access that data… but not exclusively.

So, why would I copy the file path to that EPUB in my earlier post and not copy the calibre view-book link to the EPUB?

If I put the calibre view-book link into another application, then when I click on that link the calibre Viewer will open the EPUB, and the calibre library manager will start or switch to the Default library.

If I put the file path link into another application, then when I click on that link the calibre Viewer will open the EPUB… end of story. The calibre library manager would not be started, and if it was running it would NOT switch to the Default library.

BR

The content is yours. How it's organised is decided by the programmer.
Logically the files don't exist for the use on a path, it's only an implementation detail that they do exist that way.

I'd only use the viewer via Calibre. I don't have any ebooks not imported (but the originals are still in the original locations) and thus I only use the ebook viewer via calibre. Calibre is the easiest way to find an ebook on the computer. Just like the native Kobo or Kindle or Sony PRS is library, (not KOReader and filebrowsing) is easiest on an eink Ereader.

I do have kinds of things I don't add to Calibre, and then indeed I have hierarchical human readible schemes and use a filebrowser.

There is thus IMO, no need to know the path of an ebook added to Calibre. Defeats the reason for having a library interface.

A bunch of files isn't a library. A library is content only accessed by metadata, not filepath.

Quoth · 06-02-2024, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNSB

As far as I am aware, the only OS that used a database for the filesystem was the Pick OS where everything was an object in the database. The proposed WinFS filesystem for Windows Vista was supposed to be based on a relational database but never made it out of an early beta since it was a resource hog. One comment from a beta tester was that it made a hard drive run at floppy disk speeds.

IBM wanted a version of OS/2 with DB2 integrated.

That and Pick OS are laudable ideas. But no-one yet has figured how to do that level of abstraction sensibly yet. I spent nearly 5 years (part time) trying to figure UI for documents were a user would not deal with files.

Android tried to pretend there was no file system. Only works for the User of trivial apps that don't interwork.

Quoth · 06-02-2024, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Jesus wept, if NTFS, APFS, EXT4 and their attendant tools (File Explorer/Windows Search, Finder/Spotlight, Nautilus/Lucene etc, etc) are not location 'databases' then what the heck are they.

BR

They are not.

They are filesystems. A file system might use a database and vice-versa, but they are quite different things.

BetterRed · 06-02-2024, 11:57 PM

How do y'all think calibre can open a DOCX file in Word, a TXT file in Notepad, an RTF file in WordPad, an ODT file in LO Writer etc, etc. Via the 'location database' on the host platform… i.e the file system.

If they were in a 'calibre (metadata and content) database' calibre would have to extract them into the host platform's 'location database'… or provide a 'location database' emulator to its 'calibre database' for each platform.

Strange - people tolerate the word 'tag' being used to label disparate concepts in different contexts, but they demand that the word 'database' only be used in a very narrow sense.

BR

DNSB · 06-03-2024, 12:10 AM

I could have sworn that the file system had nothing to do with the file associations since that information is stored in the registry. That worked when I was running Windows on a FAT16 filesystem. A database can be stored on a file system but confusing the database with the file system is risible. Hmmm... I remember running DB2 on an AIX system using JFS. Does that mean that JFS was a database? Or perhaps Windows 98 on a FAT16 system?

Admittedly since one of my tasks was database administrator, I do tend to laugh at people who claim that a CSV file is a database.

Would you support a claim that a floppy disk containing an installer for MS-DOS 3.0 was a database? It had a filesystem, after all. Perhaps an old CP/M boot diskette?

JSWolf · 06-03-2024, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetterRed

It would appear the "Creator of calibre" would disagree with your diktat.

Attachment 208668

BR

Just because something is available doesn't mean it should be used. If you found bottle of pills, would you take them just because you could? Just because there is a way to display the path doesn't mean it's a good idea. In fact, it's not a good idea.

BetterRed · 06-03-2024, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Just because something is available doesn't mean it should be used. If you found bottle of pills, would you take them just because you could? Just because there is a way to display the path doesn't mean it's a good idea. In fact, it's not a good idea.

I'm looking forward to seeing your PR to remove it.

To be consistent you should also remove the Open Book book folder tool. I've been using it to the get the path to format files since version 0.8.??. You might as well go for the trifecta… by removing the Browse options in the Comments editor Link dialogue.

If your PR sails though (as if) I'll cease updating calibre.

BR

ownedbycats · 06-07-2024, 07:12 AM

For what little it matters, my main reasoning for #2023509 (data file manager) was to keep users out of the library folder.

Quoth · 06-07-2024, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

For what little it matters, my main reasoning for #2023509 (data file manager) was to keep users out of the library folder.

Good plan.

slm · 06-07-2024, 05:23 PM

Ahem: ever heard of Calibre Companion (defunct) or Calibre Sync?
They operate (if the user so chooses) by reading the Calibre database (in Dropbox or another cloud) and then accessing the actual books at the location in the cloud indicated by the database. A great many users of Android and iOS devices use these to access their Calibre library.

Before Calibre Companion went to hell, it had an active page on Mobileread.
Calibre Sync now has an active page here. While these pages report many issues, none of them is about corrupting the database.

DNSB · 06-07-2024, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slm

Ahem: ever heard of Calibre Companion (defunct) or Calibre Sync?
They operate (if the user so chooses) by reading the Calibre database (in Dropbox or another cloud) and then accessing the actual books at the location in the cloud indicated by the database. A great many users of Android and iOS devices use these to access their Calibre library.

Before Calibre Companion went to hell, it had an active page on Mobileread.
Calibre Sync now has an active page here. While these pages report many issues, none of them is about corrupting the database.

The issue would occur if calibre and Calibre Companion/Calibre Sync were attempting to modify a live database at the same time. The people I know who use either keep their live calibre library on a local drive and do a one-way sync to the cloud when calibre is not running. Running a calibre library from a cloud drive is a great path to a corrupted library whether or not you are using Calibre Sync or Calibre Companion.

See SQLite Over a Network, Caveats and Considerations and in calibre's FAQs, I am getting errors with my calibre library on a networked drive/NAS? for more information.

Quoth · 06-07-2024, 06:28 PM

The Calibre Content Server with OPDS. Don't need the client to know the paths.

Calibre Companion (defunct) or Calibre Sync are both slightly broken concepts.
Also you can only safely use SQLite on a local drive. Not ANY kind of network.
Client / Server systems with full fat SQL do not either expose the SQL files or the data files. Doing so is broken.

SQLight files should only be accessed locally and only by the one program that created them. Anything else "when" not "if" level of fail.

slm · 06-07-2024, 09:38 PM

But in fact, based on the number of downloads and the activity in the fora, there are many users of this software and I doubt more than a handful use it on an independent cloud backup.

In fact, a couple of years ago, I asked on the site whether running Calibre on a Dropbox file and only accessing that file outside of Calibre to copy it to somewhere else was likely to result in any corruption. The consensus then--even from the "never touch the files" group was that no harm would result.

Of course, Calibre has moved on from there and it might be modifying files in the background now, but I don't think so.

06-03-2024, 12:10 AM	#22
DNSB Bibliophagist Posts: 40,599 Karma: 157444382 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Vancouver Device: Kobo Sage, Libra Colour, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos	I could have sworn that the file system had nothing to do with the file associations since that information is stored in the registry. That worked when I was running Windows on a FAT16 filesystem. A database can be stored on a file system but confusing the database with the file system is risible. Hmmm... I remember running DB2 on an AIX system using JFS. Does that mean that JFS was a database? Or perhaps Windows 98 on a FAT16 system? Admittedly since one of my tasks was database administrator, I do tend to laugh at people who claim that a CSV file is a database. Would you support a claim that a floppy disk containing an installer for MS-DOS 3.0 was a database? It had a filesystem, after all. Perhaps an old CP/M boot diskette? Last edited by DNSB; 06-03-2024 at 12:14 AM.

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06-02-2024, 10:35 PM	#16
DNSB Bibliophagist Posts: 40,599 Karma: 157444382 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Vancouver Device: Kobo Sage, Libra Colour, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos	As far as I am aware, the only OS that used a database for the filesystem was the Pick OS where everything was an object in the database. The proposed WinFS filesystem for Windows Vista was supposed to be based on a relational database but never made it out of an early beta since it was a resource hog. One comment from a beta tester was that it made a hard drive run at floppy disk speeds.

06-02-2024, 11:57 PM	#21
BetterRed null operator (he/him) Posts: 21,006 Karma: 27620706 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sydney Australia Device: none	How do y'all think calibre can open a DOCX file in Word, a TXT file in Notepad, an RTF file in WordPad, an ODT file in LO Writer etc, etc. Via the 'location database' on the host platform… i.e the file system. If they were in a 'calibre (metadata and content) database' calibre would have to extract them into the host platform's 'location database'… or provide a 'location database' emulator to its 'calibre database' for each platform. Strange - people tolerate the word 'tag' being used to label disparate concepts in different contexts, but they demand that the word 'database' only be used in a very narrow sense. BR

06-07-2024, 07:12 AM	#25
ownedbycats Custom User Title Posts: 9,575 Karma: 64960983 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Libra H2O, formerly Aura HD	For what little it matters, my main reasoning for #2023509 (data file manager) was to keep users out of the library folder.

06-07-2024, 05:23 PM	#27
slm Fool Posts: 424 Karma: 3585252 Join Date: Feb 2003 Device: Kindle: Voyage,PW1,KOA, Kobo: Clara Colour, Nook GLP, Pocketbook verse	Ahem: ever heard of Calibre Companion (defunct) or Calibre Sync? They operate (if the user so chooses) by reading the Calibre database (in Dropbox or another cloud) and then accessing the actual books at the location in the cloud indicated by the database. A great many users of Android and iOS devices use these to access their Calibre library. Before Calibre Companion went to hell, it had an active page on Mobileread. Calibre Sync now has an active page here. While these pages report many issues, none of them is about corrupting the database.

06-07-2024, 06:28 PM	#29
Quoth the rook, bossing Never. Posts: 12,378 Karma: 92073397 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper11	The Calibre Content Server with OPDS. Don't need the client to know the paths. Calibre Companion (defunct) or Calibre Sync are both slightly broken concepts. Also you can only safely use SQLite on a local drive. Not ANY kind of network. Client / Server systems with full fat SQL do not either expose the SQL files or the data files. Doing so is broken. SQLight files should only be accessed locally and only by the one program that created them. Anything else "when" not "if" level of fail.

06-07-2024, 09:38 PM	#30
slm Fool Posts: 424 Karma: 3585252 Join Date: Feb 2003 Device: Kindle: Voyage,PW1,KOA, Kobo: Clara Colour, Nook GLP, Pocketbook verse	But in fact, based on the number of downloads and the activity in the fora, there are many users of this software and I doubt more than a handful use it on an independent cloud backup. In fact, a couple of years ago, I asked on the site whether running Calibre on a Dropbox file and only accessing that file outside of Calibre to copy it to somewhere else was likely to result in any corruption. The consensus then--even from the "never touch the files" group was that no harm would result. Of course, Calibre has moved on from there and it might be modifying files in the background now, but I don't think so.

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