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#16 |
the rook, bossing Never.
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Also another thought, unless you have fixed layout, splitting an image across tw0 pages even when a reading app or ereader can display two pages at once doesn't work because if the font is increased or decreased when the two pages & images are side by side the reflow will mean the pair of images are split between opposite sides of a virtual leaf.
Fixed layout epub is horrible. If you need fixed layout then make a PDF. But a reflowable epub is better and simply don't split an image into two halves, or else combine them if the paper has them as separate images (but likely they started as a single image. If only some landscape images need to fill the device screen they can be edited in advance to 90° rotation and fill screen in portrait mode via width: auto and height: 100%, then the text can be read in portrait mode. Many but not all apps and ereader allow landscape display, but if the original intended for paper is mostly 2 page spreads, then assume person reads in landscape and combine each pair of source images as single landscape images with width: 95% (or 100%) and height: auto. If the app or ereader doesn't do landscape, or the user doesn't know how to do that, then the images are smaller. You can remind readers at the start to select landscape display and rotate the device. Some apps and ereaders will automatically rotate the content. Last edited by Quoth; 10-12-2022 at 03:49 PM. |
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#17 | |
Member
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Quote:
Last edited by issybird; 10-14-2022 at 12:25 AM. Reason: Colossal image thumbnailed. Please read the guidelines for limits on image size before posting again. |
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#18 | |||
Wizard
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Device: Kobo Forma, Nook
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Quote:
These are extremely hard to produce (and not well supported). They have to also be custom-made per device per store. (FXL ebooks for Amazon isn't compatible with Kobo isn't compatible with Apple iBooks.) If you want more information on advantages/disadvantages, I highly recommend checking out the fantastic article at: Creating these types of books is typically very hard for a self-published person to try to do on their own. - - - Note: Booknook is one of the very few companies officially approved by Amazon. Hitch is an extremely helpful user here—that's her conversion company. - - - Quote:
If you really want to do it on your own, then you can read all about "two-page spreads" in the actual specs:
In EPUB3, you are looking for:
but like I said, this will most likely bring pain and misery. These types of "multi-page spreads" + FXL aren't well supported in the broader ebook ecosystem. - - - Side Note: If you want even more information on FXL books, I wrote a few in-depth responses earlier this year:
95% of the time, FXL is the completely wrong tool for the job too. (People actually want a normal, reflowable EPUB.) In the very rare 5% of the time, which it looks like yours is, you may want an FXL ebook. But these types of books are:
(Personally, I don't touch FXL ebooks with a ten-foot pole.) And there's no way to JUST limit sales to "tablets" or "PCs" or "big devices", so you'll get a lot of angry customers rating/reviewing poorly too... Usually it's best to keep these types of picture books as Print-only. Quote:
which describe+show examples. Last edited by Tex2002ans; 10-13-2022 at 10:07 PM. |
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#19 |
Wizard
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Location: Walton-on-Thames, Surrey, England, UK
Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G, Kindle Fire 2, NOOK ST, Kindle HDX, Fire 7"
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'And there's no way to JUST limit sales to "tablets" or "PCs" or "big devices", ...'
In fact the Kindle store does allow this. |
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#20 | |
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
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Quote:
IF you use the DIY Amazon apps that exist today, and even some of the deprecated apps, Amazon limits it--not you. You don't get to take any eBook you make and designate it for tablets, PCs, "big devices" or the like. The idea, in fact, is limiting and denying, not enabling your choices. Amazon does not empower you to choose that--they take that away from you. You use Kindle Create and make a textbook or fixed-layout eBook? Fine, then it's limited to Kindle Fires and tablets. You lose access to ~50% of the Amazon marketplace (and let's not kid ourselves--you are cutting off the single biggest $$$ source out there. Apple, Kobo, etc. don't remotely compare, even all combined.) You use the deprecated Kindle Kids' Book Creator (which, by the way, will absolutely NOT display "one page up" when a spread book is rotated), and it's limited to Fires, pretyt much and sometimes, the "K4..." readers, too. Ditto the old Textbook Creator and all that. But it's not your choice. it's Amazon's choice. They took dozens, or even scores, of hand-made fixed-layout kids' books that we'd made, NOT using their apps, mind you, back in 2010-2014, and they changed them so that they could NOT be bought on eInks, even though ours did work on eInks, because the KC-cum-KKBC-cum-etc. DIY apps' versions do not. Oh and let's not forget--you can't upload a fixed-layout ePUB to make a fixed-layout Kindle eBook, EITHER. That doesn't work, unless you've painstakingly written all the ePUB coding by hand, to work in the Amazon ecosystem. 99.99% of all eBook publishers have no idea how to do that and don't. (And as I said, if you're not playing in Amazon's sandbox...well.) MOST readers have nothing in common, performance/functionality-wise, with the App Formerly Known as iBooks (Books Reader, the stupidest bloody name ever). The Kindles certainly do not. About 90-something percent of fixed-layout coded ePUB3s, that work on Apple's platform, WILL work on Kobo, but that's about it. You try to upload those FXL ePUBs at Ingram, D2D, etc. and it's ALWAYS a nightmare (they don't have distinct FXL intake processes and insist on running them through their "garbage-eater" APIs and "fixing" them to be reflowable!!!) and don't get me started about bloody PublishDrive that had the unmitigated GALL to tell one of my clients to 'fix" his Fixed-layout (poetry plus photography) eBook using Calibre. Trust me, they got the back of my tongue. I received rather profuse and lengthy apologies from them about it, but it didn't compensate me for the bloody DAYS I spent, telling the customer what to tell them. Jackasses. Quoth knows whereof he speaks. You would do well to pay attention. Hitch |
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#21 |
the rook, bossing Never.
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Hitch could take your content and make it a regular reflowable epub2 for upload to Amazon and almost everywhere else. It will then work in some fashion on everything and a two page spread source image can be a single image to nearly fit a screen in landscape device mode if supported, though images will be a bit small on a 4.3" phone or 5" eink in portrait.
Many apps can do landscape and some really old kindles do rotation automatically. Some apps and eink devices only do portrait. Download the 87p Beatrix Potter and compare it on phone, eink and tablet. Google Playstore has some free Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle comics which sort of work in Google Play books on a 6.8" eink, but of course are better on a 10" tablet. Smashwords (now part of D2D) redistribute to Apple, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Tolino, Scribd etc. Via reflowable epub, or poorer quality from MS Doc. Amazon KDP works best with reflowable epub upload. Google Playstore Books works best with reflowable epub. With 3 uploads using reflowable epub2 you access phones, Fire, Tablets, apps, eInk; almost 100% of the Market and probably every eink based ereader in the last 12 years (some older that that are still going and most of those can work with epub or Mobi via epub2 uploaded to Amazon KDP). |
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#22 | |||||
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
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Quote:
What matters is what the publisher wants; if they end up learning a harder lesson, say, at Amazon with a KQN or the like, that's...that's different. It's not really our job, either here on MR or in my shop, to say "you CAN'T do that." I try to explain...but I don't hold interventions when they decide to go FXL. Just so you know. :-) ヾ(≧∇≦)ゞ I'm feeling rather raw and fraught on this topic at the mo; I have a pair of lady clients, who did a kids' book that they wanted for Halloween (sigh) and we did it reflowable, AFTER considerable discussion and guess what? They're not happy. I can't make them happy, without making it FXL and even then, they won't be happy. Their last "counter offer" was, "well, make it so the 4-line couplets can't break across pages and we'll be okay with it," which, wait for it, we can't do. Not in any "right" coding way. (sigh). Quote:
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Hitch |
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#23 | ||||
Wizard
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Device: Kobo Forma, Nook
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Quote:
You're pretty much the only one I know that KNOWS the ins-and-outs + deals with all that FXL stuff... and then actually spreads nuggets of knowledge about it over the years. ![]() (Everything else is like pulling teeth... + complete Amazon marketing lies/quarter-truths.) Quote:
A two-page spread (or even image's layout in a book)... may not fit well inside the single-screen device. It's like trying to squish a 7″×10″ (or 14″×20″) page into a 6″ screen—it just won't work! (Not to mention the horrible pinch/zooming we keep on mentioning.)—the two-page spread's text would just be... microscopic! You may have to go back to the source document and tweak the size/placement of images/text to get a better visual in your FXL ebook. Each one of these changes has to be tweaked/decided on... per page/device/store/book basis. These FXL ebooks then need to be tested on the devices themselves, and, again, this is where professional knowledge comes into play. A professional would preemptively make you aware of these issues and/or fix them before they become a larger problem. (Very bad user reviews, returned books, Kindle Quality Notices [KQNs].) - - - Side Note: I wrote a lot about "professional knowledge" in: Quote:
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"FXL? Nah. Bad idea." (And then I promote Booknook.biz! ![]() And they'll always get a strongly worded (few) paragraphs from me! ![]() Last edited by Tex2002ans; 10-14-2022 at 05:50 PM. |
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#24 | |
the rook, bossing Never.
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Quote:
BUT I've only ever seen a real two page spread in a PDF from a scanned book. Each pair of book pages is thus one image. There is no two "logical" or virtual panes/ pages. Just one page per screen unless an illusion by PDF or a table (which breaks in reflowable ebooks, i.e. real ebooks). IMO if it doesn't reflow to fit the screen of any shape, size, portrait or landscape it's not a real ebook, but a displayable document. If it's other than static images and text, like multimedia, then it's a multimedia or interactive application, not a real ebook, even if it conforms to a format/spec that can be used for real ebooks. Also if a PDF isn't the same when printed on paper, or is interactive (even just a form) it's a misuse of the format and also insecure. More than ten years ago I thought an interactive ebook would be a good idea, but it was a lazy idea. A proper multimedia program or app, even using a framework is better. For portability, security and ease of use an ebook should only have content that works on paper, but a subset of formatting to suit any shape and size of screen from 2" square upwards. Only Interaction TOC and internal links to replace footnotes if absolutely needed. Even on paper footnotes distract on fiction and endnotes may be needed for citation, but unless researching they are ghastly on paper. I recently got Christopher Tolkien's edited collection of "Unfinished Tales" which is really a reference work rather than a collection of short stories. Section endnotes and I think footnotes would have been better for reading, but it makes sense if it's just a reference work. |
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#25 |
Junior Member
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You need to create a Fixed Layout Epub. Sigil is not good at all at creating those. Adobe InDesign and Jutoh are the ones that create them well as far as I know.
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css, epub, html, sigil |
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Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Two facing pages in the viewer …solved!! | pollito pito | Calibre | 18 | 08-26-2015 05:15 PM |
optional (double pages, facing pages) | kelly33 | Kindle Formats | 0 | 11-08-2012 01:02 AM |
Two columns display in the viewer? (facing pages) | pollito pito | Calibre | 6 | 04-17-2010 08:09 AM |
Converting PDF's with facing pages | BrentB | Calibre | 1 | 02-14-2010 05:39 PM |
Turning Scanned PDFs with facing pages into single pages | jimteacher | Workshop | 5 | 11-09-2009 02:59 PM |