|
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
![]() |
#61 | |
Snoozing in the sun
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 10,137
Karma: 115423645
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#62 | |
Grand Sorcerer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 7,356
Karma: 52612287
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: Kindle Fire, Kindle Paperwhite, AGPTek Bluetooth Clip
|
Quote:
Is a bookshop really related to the arts? Such a store doesn't seem particularly literary; maybe the artists wanting to exhibit there made it more art-related. Florence doesn't seem to be positioning herself and her store as any kind of cultural arbiters (except perhaps by selling Lolita, but nothing develops from that). If Florence had tried to use her store to host speakers and discussions and such, I could see her as a threat to Violet, but she seemed to want only to sell books, and not much else. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#63 | |
Snoozing in the sun
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 10,137
Karma: 115423645
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch
|
Quite early in the book, at the party, there is the statement that "Mrs Violet Gamart, the natural patroness of all public activities in Hardborough, came towards them". Clearly, this included the arts because she was wanting Old House to be turned into an Arts Centre.
I would certainly see that a bookshop was related to the arts, given that literature is one of the arts. A definition from Wikipedia, which seems as good as any: Quote:
This brings me to something else. Several people have stated that Florence doesn't love books, and I'm not sure why, except that the text doesn't specifically state that she loved books. She arranged her stock with discrimination, and while she didn't really care for the paperbacks, they were arranged in "well-disciplined ranks". At the beginning of chapter 4, on the day of opening the bookshop, Raven called in and was critical of the job the scouts had made of the shelves they put up. Florence "would have no fault found. Besides, now that the books were in place, well to the front (she couldn't bear them to slide back as though defeated), any irregularities could scarcely be noticed." That sounds to me like someone who loves books, to care about how they look on the shelves. At the end, she kept two of the Everyman editions after selling the rest of her stock, one by Ruskin and one by Bunyan, each with its old bookmarker. She rescued those books because they wouldn't have sold and would probably only been thrown out. Isn't that love? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#64 | |||
Grand Sorcerer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 7,356
Karma: 52612287
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: Kindle Fire, Kindle Paperwhite, AGPTek Bluetooth Clip
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#65 | |
cacoethes scribendi
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 5,809
Karma: 137770742
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650
|
I logged in to post a response that would have looked almost identical to yours, above, Catlady.
![]() But also... Quote:
And the saved Everyman editions seemed much like keeping some antique thimbles from that hypothetical haberdashery: mementos. It might be possible to make something of the authors of these two books, but I never had the impression that Florence had done much more than look at the front and back matter. She appears to like books as objects, things on shelves, but she never speaks of what is in them - which is where I get the impression that she is not a lover of books, but perhaps I should say, not a lover of stories. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#66 |
Snoozing in the sun
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 10,137
Karma: 115423645
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch
|
Somehow I don't think we are going to persuade each other to a different viewpoint!
I do agree that Violet Gamart didn't actually give a toss about The Arts, but only about being in charge of everything and acknowledged as such. To stand up to her once she had had an idea (in this case an Arts Centre) was asking for trouble. As it says near the beginning of the book, about the people at the party: "They were all kind to their hostess, because it made life easier." She had of course tried to win over Mr Brundish and had failed utterly. He had no interest in her aspirations, but he understood her far better than Florence did. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#67 |
cacoethes scribendi
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 5,809
Karma: 137770742
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650
|
One consequence of a book like this, that leaves so much unexplained, is that the reader is, of course, going to impose their own interpretations. Although, we do seem to manage that even when books are more explicit
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#68 | |
Grand Sorcerer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 7,356
Karma: 52612287
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: Kindle Fire, Kindle Paperwhite, AGPTek Bluetooth Clip
|
Quote:
I'm reminded of Passing, the end of which was open to interpretation. The characters there were so much more alive and passionate and real, even in the confines of an equally short book. Fitzgerald may be a better writer than Larsen in terms of style, but Larsen did a much better job of connecting with the reader. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#69 |
E-reader Enthusiast
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 4,873
Karma: 36507503
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Southwest, USA
Device: Kindle Oasis 3; Kobo Aura One; iPad Mini 5
|
Didn’t they try to convince her to open up the bookshop in the fish & chips shop instead? I don’t remember all the reasons why or who. Was it only the bank manager?
Did anyone research the titles that she chose to keep and were they symbolic? I haven’t had a chance to yet. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#70 |
cacoethes scribendi
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 5,809
Karma: 137770742
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650
|
"Deben's wet fish shop" (no chips
![]() The first book is presumably: Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners, or a Brief Relation of the Exceeding Mercy of God in Christ to his Poor Servant John Bunyan written by John Bunyan. The Ruskin book might be the smaller set published as just Unto this Last (1860) or perhaps the larger collection Unto This Last And Other Essays On Political Economy by John Ruskin (1912) - or there might be other editions too. I don't know the Bunyan book, but I read the Ruskin book (the larger collection of essays) only a few years ago. I was inspired to tackle it on learning that Gandhi was influenced by it. It offers a very different view of economics and how it might work. Ruskin was searching for a "just" economy: one that takes into account that the usefulness of an item is not just in the item itself, but also in the capability of the holder to use it, and whether that use is good ("life giving") or bad ("life taking"). He emphasised education to lift people from less capable to more capable. Having studied economics (briefly) I did find Ruskin's ideas intriguing, but some of his ideas don't translate so well into modern times. He seemed to be a believer in hierarchical social structures, and to think voting rights should be tied how much you earned. On the other hand, he also describes the power of the rich over the poor as slavery - they can either submit or starve. There are some subtleties in his ideas that take some getting your head around - they may seem contradictory, but it's not that simple. We could read this in the club, but we might have to discuss it in the P&R forum. Here is a quote I posted from the collection that gives some feel for his opinions and his style of writing. (ETA: Gender doesn't really come into Ruskin's essays, but given the time - 1860 - we might presume he would have thought neither Florence nor Mrs Gamart had any business getting involved in any of this business. Ruskin appeared to support education for women, but whether he was so far ahead of his time as to think beyond that is less clear.) How the author wanted that to relate to Florence is not obvious to me. Florence could certain have done with some education in economics, but then Ruskin would seem to support Mrs Gamart as hierarchically and economically entitled to exert her influence. ETA2: Having thought a bit more, the larger collection of Ruskin essays (that the linked quote comes from) does spend considerable time discussing the importance of art as part of the "true wealth" of the economy. So if the book that Florence keeps is the larger collection of essays then it would seem to suggest support for Mrs Gamart's arts centre over Florence's private little endeavour. Maybe. Last edited by gmw; 01-21-2020 at 02:51 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#71 |
Snoozing in the sun
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 10,137
Karma: 115423645
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch
|
I'm not sure the two books were symbolic, but they would certainly have been unlikely to sell in a place like Hardborough. A university town maybe, if they were set texts.
I think that for Florence they were, like her, rejected, and so she rescued them from the wreckage of her enterprise. I don't see that she kept them as mementoes. That seems too lighthearted for the situation in which she found herself. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#72 |
Wizard
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 1,013
Karma: 19767610
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Device: ipad, Kindle PW, Kobo Clara; iphone 7
|
I’m revisiting Florence’s feelings about books, even though we’ve established that we won’t convince one another.
![]() In addition to Bookpossum’s excellent list, we know that Florence’s primary concern was to offer the community ‘good’ books. Also, she went ahead with the library, twice, even though it was more trouble for her than it was worth, for the sake of people who wanted more to read. Finally she mentions that Christine is not a reader, which implies that it stood out as being unusual to her. On the other hand, when she and Milo discuss Lolita, she says “I am a retailer, and I haven’t been trained to understand the arts and I don’t know whether a book is a masterpiece or not.” That said, in the Lolita discussions with both Milo and Mr. Brundish they ask Florence directly about her thoughts. She has explored the book on her own, and knew what she thought. I felt she cared very deeply about books and the importance of reading, but just lacked confidence in her own judgement about their artistic merit. That’s not uncommon; my parents, who were voracious readers, would likely have felt the same way simply because they’d never been to university. But I can see why someone would conclude Florence wasn’t passionate about books. I did a search and couldn’t find an example of a book she was reading. Another zigzag for me was about the extent of Mr. Brundish’s loneliness. He is initially portrayed as alone and a recluse. In describing the visit Fitzgerald says “He wanted to welcome her but was more used to threatening, and the change of attitude was difficult for him.” But later we learn that he has children, grandchildren and family all over the globe who visit him. He also has a stream of important visitors from London and the universities, etc, that Violet feels jealous about. So he regularly entertains. The shifting perspective seems intentional to me. Perhaps Fitzgerald’s wants to caution readers that people aren’t always as they appear. That would explain the General; he doesn’t seem to understand what Violet is really like, and he believes her when she lies to him, but you still get the feeling he’s uncomfortable. Last edited by Victoria; 01-21-2020 at 05:33 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#73 |
cacoethes scribendi
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 5,809
Karma: 137770742
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650
|
One risk with "people aren't always as they appear" is reevaluating Mrs Gamart. Perhaps she cares deeply about the arts and just has poor people skills? For most of the book we only have a fairly remote view of her. By the time we get to meet her more personally - with Mr Brundish - enough has happened that she may feel justified in her dislike of Florence. And consider the very strange behaviour of Mr Brundish during that meeting, we might easily excuse Mrs Gamart for responding poorly to a man that swears at her under his breath.
And all this may well be true, but once you allow a complete turn around in any of the characters the story blurs even more. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#74 | |
Snoozing in the sun
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 10,137
Karma: 115423645
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch
|
Poor people skills - I love it! Without being an expert, it seems to me she could be described as a narcissist, as these traits don't sound too far out for her:
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#75 |
Wizard
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 1,013
Karma: 19767610
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Device: ipad, Kindle PW, Kobo Clara; iphone 7
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
MobileRead February Discussion: Tender is the Night by F. Scott Fitzgerald (spoilers) | WT Sharpe | Book Clubs | 34 | 09-20-2022 01:58 PM |
The 2020 Annual Reading Challenge Discussion Thread | pdurrant | Reading Recommendations | 224 | 02-05-2021 09:11 AM |
Literary Silence Is Golden • January 2020 | sun surfer | Book Clubs | 28 | 02-10-2020 01:46 AM |
Mystery and Crime Davis, Norbert: Holocaust House and other stories (2020); v1, 2 Jn 2020 | Pulpmeister | Kindle Books | 0 | 01-02-2020 04:14 AM |
Mystery and Crime Davis, Norbert: Watch Me Kill You (2020); v1; 2 Jan 2020 | Pulpmeister | Kindle Books | 0 | 01-02-2020 04:07 AM |