Dealing with Amazon can be a right pain

[John F]

Originally Posted by darryl

Much different, John, for so many reasons. As I understand the 1984 scandal ebooks which had been sold by Amazon were actually removed from people's devices without their consent. I abhor geo-restrictions and don't think Amazon is doing themselves any favours restricting Kindle Worlds to the US, particularly not when such restrictions appear to be implemented so inconsistently. I would like to see Amazon make special arrangements to provide the OP with the book. But Amazon is not committing a major crime here. It is nowhere near as offensive as what happened with 1984.

It really is that similar, IMO. They aren't suppossed to be selling it. Refund the money. Pull the copies from servers for the affected areas. I have no idea how to deal with inconsistancies between customer and Amazon Eula and contracts between Amazon and Authors/publishers and copyright.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by John F

Reading what Amazon said, I interpret it as they will not delete content from devices. I would intrepret it that they could delete it from the servers. If they aren't supposed to be distributing it, wouldn't they have to?

An interesting question. They would certainly have to stop selling it, but having already done so would they be compelled to remove it from the online libraries of the purchasers? I don't have the answer, but tend to doubt it. But why take the chance? It's yet one more reason to keep a local backup of all of your files, preferably free of drm.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by darryl

An interesting question. They would certainly have to stop selling it, but having already done so would they be compelled to remove it from the online libraries of the purchasers? I don't have the answer, but tend to doubt it. But why take the chance? It's yet one more reason to keep a local backup of all of your files, preferably free of drm.

Kobo accidentally sold me an ebook in the US on its UK release day once. It wasn't scheduled for release in the US for another year. I didn't find out any of these details until much later, of course. I was recommending it to friends and they were telling me they couldn't buy it. When I checked my online Kobo library, the title was listed, but went to a "title unavailable" page when clicking on it for the details. Couldn't redownload it. It still behaves that way today (in my online library) even though the title is now available in the US.

I backed it up myself, so I'm not really out anything. My only beef is that being able to buy the first ebook early means that I have to wait two years between the first and second books of the series instead of one! It's my own fault, though, for breaking my own "don't start a series until all its installments are available (or very close to it)" rule.

[LadyKate]

Originally Posted by John F

Amazon sold something they weren't supposed to, just like 1984. Almost the exact same thing.

Actually John, it is Amazon selecting several of their author and negotiating with them to open their developed "worlds" to other authors to allow them to write stories, novellas etc in those worlds.

While the term "fan fiction" has been thrown around and the desire of people to read these stories put down to "but it's just fan fiction", it should be noted that the authors writing these contributions to the "worlds" are professional authors.

It would be like calling Jody Lynn Nye (an author with 185 works listed on goodreads) a "fan fiction" writer because she accepts invitations to write in Mercedies Lackey's Elemental "world" anthologies.

Because these contributions to the worlds are part of Amazon's new(ish) Kindle Worlds with restrictions to JUST the USA it has become somewhat of a pet peeve of mine that Amazon has decided to have additions to the worlds of these authors not be available to any of the fans of the authors/worlds/original series if they do not live in the US. I feel strongly that it is sending a message to me (as a reader from Canada instead of the US) not to follow the authors who are participating in Kindle Worlds.

Why should I purchase any more books by the authors who are involved in Kindle Worlds? Even if "new release a" in "series a" by an author who works within a Kindle Worlds(KW) contract is one which is not under the KW restrictions, who is to say that "series a" will not appeal to Amazon as a new KW and become unavailable to me?

Geo restrictions in the Kindle Worlds case is purely something Amazon has come up with for some reason thinking it a good marketing plan. I know it has made me feel unimportant as a customer and as a fan of the authors who are involved in KW works.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

My only beef is that being able to buy the first ebook early means that I have to wait two years between the first and second books of the series instead of one!

Reduced to one year presumably if you travel to the UK and buy the next book on its release date there? A lot of those posting on some of the Kobo threads certainly love to travel!

[LadyKate]

Originally Posted by Timboli

I guess that is one of the differences between the US and AUS. We have rulings about Fair Play and Reasonable Expectations.

I have never said Amazon can't scapegoat by playing hardball with their terms of service etc, but that it would be wrong for them to do so.

Not all Laws are written ones, and neither are Logic or Ethics or Morality bound by written Laws.

Timboli, you should contact the author directly. Perhaps on facebook?

Tell him/her how much you want to read the final installment, and how you had purchased and read the first three and ask if there is some way to get a copy of the final installment?

When I expressed extreme displeasure to an author I follow (as in have purchased everything they have published until KW) that I couldn't get the KW novella she had written and indicated that as I wasn't "entitled" to read that book then I guess I wasn't "worthy" of purchasing any more of her work she sent me a copy of the novella. (BTW it really is how I feel. If I can't read some of an author's work but can read about how interesting it is to me in their newsletters, on their blogs etc... well it becomes a "why bother" buying any of it thing)

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by darryl

Reduced to one year presumably if you travel to the UK and buy the next book on its release date there? A lot of those posting on some of the Kobo threads certainly love to travel!

I rarely travel. Literally or figuratively.
I have no moral qualms concerning others jumping through some geo-UN-restricting hoops, but it's just not something I'm comfortable doing myself. Deceit adds unwanted complications to my simple nature. In other words: I'm too lazy to build the false infrastructure necessary just to buy a book.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by LadyKate

Geo restrictions in the Kindle Worlds case is purely something Amazon has come up with for some reason thinking it a good marketing plan. I know it has made me feel unimportant as a customer and as a fan of the authors who are involved in KW works.

I agree with you. Geo-restrictions on digital content on the Internet are ridiculous. Amazon can't do much about it with third party books where they have rights only to the US. But Kindle Worlds are under the control of Amazon. I believe that the contracts for the authors who write in those worlds license Amazon to sell the stories worldwide. From what I can see Amazon is in control of where these stories are sold. Amazon may have a good reason for restricting these books to the US, but if so it is not apparent. When first rolling out the program it may make some sense to have a trial in only one country, but the program seems to be well past its pilot stage now!

[darryl]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I rarely travel. Literally or figuratively.
In other words: I'm too lazy to build the false infrastructure necessary just to buy a book.

Don't blame you. For someone who lives especially in the US or to a lesser extent in the UK there would seem to be very little incentive to do so.

ADDITION:

I should add that someone outside the US, say Canada, for instance, has the world to gain. In fact, Worlds of the Kindle variety.

[latepaul]

Originally Posted by darryl

I agree with you. Geo-restrictions on digital content on the Internet are ridiculous. Amazon can't do much about it with third party books where they have rights only to the US. But Kindle Worlds are under the control of Amazon. I believe that the contracts for the authors who write in those worlds license Amazon to sell the stories worldwide. From what I can see Amazon is in control of where these stories are sold. Amazon may have a good reason for restricting these books to the US, but if so it is not apparent. When first rolling out the program it may make some sense to have a trial in only one country, but the program seems to be well past its pilot stage now!

Kindle Worlds itself is based on rights granted by the original Author/Publisher - the right to create a derivative work. And those rights may already by split by region - think different publishers in different parts of the world. I suspect by restricting it to the US Amazon is just simplifying the process for itself.

[John F]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I rarely travel. Literally or figuratively.
I have no moral qualms concerning others jumping through some geo-UN-restricting hoops, but it's just not something I'm comfortable doing myself. Deceit adds unwanted complications to my simple nature. In other words: I'm too lazy to build the false infrastructure necessary just to buy a book.

FWIW, I don't believe you need any "false infrastructure" for Kobo. You just need to change your address in your account profile.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by latepaul

Kindle Worlds itself is based on rights granted by the original Author/Publisher - the right to create a derivative work. And those rights may already by split by region - think different publishers in different parts of the world. I suspect by restricting it to the US Amazon is just simplifying the process for itself.

This is possible, though I doubt it. The Kindle Worlds seem to be Indie based. As far as I know, and please correct me if I am wrong, there is no Stephen King World, no Harry Potter or Twilight World. In fact, I'm not sure if any of the large publishers are participating. I would be surprised if Amazon did not have world wide rights in the case of all Kindle Worlds.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by John F

FWIW, I don't believe you need any "false infrastructure" for Kobo. You just need to change your address in your account profile.

Does it have to be a real address? A real address that I'm not so much -- you know -- living at?

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by darryl

This is possible, though I doubt it. The Kindle Worlds seem to be Indie based. As far as I know, and please correct me if I am wrong, there is no Stephen King World, no Harry Potter or Twilight World. In fact, I'm not sure if any of the large publishers are participating. I would be surprised if Amazon did not have world wide rights in the case of all Kindle Worlds.

There's a Kindle World for Kurt Vonnegut and several "big" production television shows (Wayward Pines, The 100, Veronica Mars, etc..) so it's not only things that Amazon is in full control of (distribution rights-wise).

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Why would anyone deserve a refund for books they bought, received, read, and enjoyed enough to want to buy more?

I don't think a refund should be given. I think the 4th book should be allowed to be purchased.