What are your views on illegal copying? - Page 24

Harmon · 02-25-2010, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa

The moral difference to me is that I feel the authors and publishers are entitled to set terms for making their work available just as I set the terms for mine.

They are entitled to avail themselves of the particular advantages granted to them under copyright law. But those advantages were conveyed with the understanding that what they produced is being made available to the rest of us. And remember, what we are talking about here is the morality of copying their books, not the legality.

In evaluating the morality of the copying, you have to take into account the morality of the withholding.

What publishers are doing is saying that they are going to prevent their books from going into the digital environment, even though that environment is at this point on the verge of being dominant. Whole generations of people have been raised in the digital environment, and these publishers are saying "tough, we aren't letting our product into that environment."

I say that they are reneging on the deal, and that if they don't make a digital form of their book available, they have no standing to complain about people doing it for them

Quote:

This scarcity doesn't exist with the digital media. It's easy to instantaneously get my own copy of the book with little disincentive aside from my own feeling of violating the social contract by doing so.

This is an important point, both from a moral perspective and an economic one.

But the answer cannot be that some books don't become digital media until 70 years or even 70 months have passed.

Quote:

Granted, I would not feel so badly about downloading a book I couldn't purchase in any format but that hasn't come up for me yet. I've always been able to at least find a used paper copy.

I think that a publisher has an obligation to publish, and to do it in a way that makes the book available to the general public. Were it not for the recalcitrance of publishers and their equivalents in other genres of creative work (I'm looking at you, music industry) we would be much further along the way to achieving the objectives of establishing copyright protection in the first place.

So my moral reaction is this: if a book is going to be made available to everyone in digital format, then everyone should be expected to acquire the book from the publisher. But if the publisher is going to hold back digital publication, it does so at the risk that someone else will make the product available in digital form.

Robert Minneman · 02-26-2010, 12:49 PM

But when debating morality you delve into "opinion", one person's "morality" is another person's "prudishness", is another person's "amorality"...

- All illegal copying of books is wrong
From my version of morality, no. There are situations where it's moral to copy a book.

-It's OK to copy a book that is Public Domain in a different country
My version of morality answers this as, "It depends..."

-It's OK to copy a book if I bought it new in print (I've paid the author)
My version of morality answers this as, "Yes."

-It's OK to copy a book if I own it in print (I own a paid-up copy)
My version of morality answers this as, "Yes."

-It's OK to copy a book that is not published electronically (I can't buy it)
My version of morality answers this as, "Probably not."

-It's OK to copy a book that is not published in my country (I can't buy it here)
My version of morality answers this as, "It depends..."

-It's OK to copy a book if the author is dead
My version of morality answers this as, "It depends..."

-It's OK to copy a book if I think that the author is rich
My version of morality answers this as, "Probably not."

-It's OK to copy a book from mainstream publishers
My version of morality answers this as, "Probably not."

-It's always OK to copy (information wants to be free)
My version of morality answers this as, "Of course not, don't be silly."

So to paraphrase a favorite acronym: YMMV

Your morality may vary...

stxopher · 02-26-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa

Nearly, but some might have a moral problem with downloading an unauthorized copy of a book if they could still buy it in print. If it's not available for purchase in any format, then it might not be so objectionable to them.

Yes, that would be it. The books are just no longer in production or for sale but still under copyright. With the always extending time on copyrights this could crop up more often than it does now. (Though it should happen less if the books ever go digital.)

I predict that within the next 10 years the new copyright extension will just be listed as "1 day after the death of the reader".

MrBlueSky · 02-26-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stxopher

I predict that within the next 10 years the new copyright extension will just be listed as "1 day after the death of the reader".

Ha ha ha ha. I say that if a copyright monopoly holder can extract profit for 70 years after death, then I am certain that they will not object to me paying them—70 years after I die too!

Of course, I may have forgotten who I have read by then

Robert Minneman · 02-26-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBlueSky

Ha ha ha ha. I say that if a copyright monopoly holder can extract profit for 70 years after death, then I am certain that they will not object to me paying them—70 years after I die too!

Of course, I may have forgotten who I have read by then

There's got to be SOME up side to alzhiemers, eh?

Harmon · 03-03-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billjr13

Uh, illegal copying is umm - ILLEGAL. If it were legal it wouldn't be Illegal copying. Some people are happy and willing to ignore rules/laws in society and some are not. It is just how some people are willing to justify doing something that has been deemed wrong by sociatal rules that bugs me. I'm not taking something that doesn't belong to me.
Just because you don't like a rule/law doesn't mean you can ignore it, and if you do and you get caught/punished you are getting what you deserve.

Hmm. What do you deserve for stealing the picture of Calvin to use for your icon?

Billjr13 · 03-03-2010, 06:47 PM

Probably something less than Death?

I vote for a slap on the wrist

Harmon · 03-03-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billjr13

Probably something less than Death?

I vote for a slap on the wrist

Well, okay. Watterson isn't using him anymore, anyway.

http://www.rayb.com/cartoons/calvin.jpg

TuxGirl · 03-26-2010, 05:52 PM

"okay" as in "legal"? "okay" as in "ethical"? "okay" as in "ought to be legal"?

View Poll Results: What are your views on illegal copying?
All illegal copying of books is wrong	43	13.78%
It's OK to copy a book that is Public Domain in a different country	134	42.95%
It's OK to copy a book if I bought it new in print (I've paid the author)	172	55.13%
It's OK to copy a book if I own it in print (I own a paid-up copy)	181	58.01%
It's OK to copy a book that is not published electronically (I can't buy it)	126	40.38%
It's OK to copy a book that is not published in my country (I can't buy it here)	125	40.06%
It's OK to copy a book if the author is dead	79	25.32%
It's OK to copy a book if I think that the author is rich	19	6.09%
It's OK to copy a book from mainstream publishers	17	5.45%
It's always OK to copy (information wants to be free)	61	19.55%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 312. You may not vote on this poll

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02-26-2010, 12:49 PM	#347
Robert Minneman Connoisseur Posts: 53 Karma: 18010 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: Sony PRS-505	But when debating morality you delve into "opinion", one person's "morality" is another person's "prudishness", is another person's "amorality"... - All illegal copying of books is wrong From my version of morality, no. There are situations where it's moral to copy a book. -It's OK to copy a book that is Public Domain in a different country My version of morality answers this as, "It depends..." -It's OK to copy a book if I bought it new in print (I've paid the author) My version of morality answers this as, "Yes." -It's OK to copy a book if I own it in print (I own a paid-up copy) My version of morality answers this as, "Yes." -It's OK to copy a book that is not published electronically (I can't buy it) My version of morality answers this as, "Probably not." -It's OK to copy a book that is not published in my country (I can't buy it here) My version of morality answers this as, "It depends..." -It's OK to copy a book if the author is dead My version of morality answers this as, "It depends..." -It's OK to copy a book if I think that the author is rich My version of morality answers this as, "Probably not." -It's OK to copy a book from mainstream publishers My version of morality answers this as, "Probably not." -It's always OK to copy (information wants to be free) My version of morality answers this as, "Of course not, don't be silly." So to paraphrase a favorite acronym: YMMV Your morality may vary...

03-03-2010, 06:47 PM	#352
Billjr13 Addict Posts: 357 Karma: 550002 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Colorado Device: Sony PRS 700 & 650	Probably something less than Death? I vote for a slap on the wrist

03-26-2010, 05:52 PM	#354
TuxGirl Groupie Posts: 179 Karma: 141378 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: kindle	"okay" as in "legal"? "okay" as in "ethical"? "okay" as in "ought to be legal"?