05-29-2017, 05:57 PM | #31 | ||||
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 5,599
Karma: 23164939
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Kindle PW2
|
Quote:
Many verses in the book are actually by famous poets, for example the very first verse in the book is by Jarir ibn ‘Atiya. Unfortunately, several translators tried to match the original rhyme scheme at the expense of readability. Here are three translations of the same poem: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
05-29-2017, 06:58 PM | #32 |
Snoozing in the sun
Posts: 10,137
Karma: 115423645
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch
|
Thanks Doitsu. I don't know the original of course, but the third one, not striving for rhymes, seems to me to be by far the best. I had a quick look in the Haddawy version I am reading, but couldn't find it. Which story is it in?
|
05-30-2017, 10:18 AM | #33 | |
Wizard
Posts: 1,369
Karma: 26915798
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ireland
Device: Kindle Oasis 3, 4G, iPad Air 2, iPhone IE
|
Quote:
Rhymed prose, as well as poetry, was used to convey a heightened emotional experience. He then quotes a particularly ugly example from Burton. "But in the stress and stowre I get sundry grievous wounds and sore; and since that time. I have passed on his back three days without tasting food or sleeping aught, so that my strength is down brought and the world is become to me as naught." Irwin continues to note that the "closeness and profusion of rhyming and metrical patterns cannot be mimicked in English without serious strain." Further there is a "penchant for punning and word play." Thus, a translator generally finds it nearly impossible to get a multiplicity of senses. " Again and again, a translator will find he can translate one sense of a couplet, but only at the cost of sacrificing a second sense which the author also intended and which gave force and wit to his verse." He concludes: "Although there is a lot of poetry in the Nights and its protagonists have little difficulty in spouting it, even when faced with shipwreck, rape or death, little of the poetry which features in the stories appears to have any direct bearing on the action. Understandably, then some translators, notably Littmann, who produced the best German translation, and Dawood, who translated a selection of the stories for Penguin Books, took the decision to omit poetry in the Nights altogether." By the way I sampled this book having read Dr Drib's post and I would recommend it for anyone who wants a modern study of the context of The Arabian Nights. It is adding a great deal to my enjoyment. Last edited by fantasyfan; 05-30-2017 at 10:24 AM. |
|
05-30-2017, 01:04 PM | #34 | ||||||
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 5,599
Karma: 23164939
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Kindle PW2
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Here's the Lyons translation of the same passage: Quote:
|
||||||
05-30-2017, 06:07 PM | #35 |
Wizard
Posts: 1,369
Karma: 26915798
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ireland
Device: Kindle Oasis 3, 4G, iPad Air 2, iPhone IE
|
A Kindle version of 101 Nights in English is available at Amazon UK but is quite expensive ( £22.52).
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hundred-Nig...and+one+nights Last edited by fantasyfan; 05-31-2017 at 03:39 AM. |
05-30-2017, 07:16 PM | #36 | |
Snoozing in the sun
Posts: 10,137
Karma: 115423645
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch
|
Quote:
|
|
05-31-2017, 04:26 AM | #37 |
Wizard
Posts: 1,369
Karma: 26915798
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ireland
Device: Kindle Oasis 3, 4G, iPad Air 2, iPhone IE
|
I agree. I think that Dotsu's very informed and enjoyable posts make it clear that it will be worth getting the Lyons version.
As to the 101 Nights, the edition I mentioned is quite new and the first time it has been translated into English. The sample I downloaded gives the excellent introduction by Robert Irwin and a great deal of the opening section by the editor--but no tales. It might be worth thinking about as a future purchase. UPDATE Evidently the high price and large file size of this edition is because it is the scholarly version which includes pages of the original Arabic as well as the translation! I suspect that later on a pb will be available as an ebook that will be cheaper and will not include the original MS. In the meantime, some might be interested in Lyons's book Tales of the Marvellous and News of the Strange. which "is probably the oldest surviving story collection with material in common with the Nights." There is another of those great introductions by Robert Irwin which are filled with interesting observations. Finally, when this became our choice for the month I had no suspicion that I was once again going to be so completely hypnotised by this amazing collection. Last edited by fantasyfan; 06-01-2017 at 06:32 PM. |
06-04-2017, 08:51 AM | #38 |
Snoozing in the sun
Posts: 10,137
Karma: 115423645
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch
|
I have finished reading the Haddawy translation, with a break in the middle to read a couple of other books. My feeling is that it should be read over a long period, probably one story at a time, and I think the Lyons translation sounds better than the Haddawy. Unfortunately, my library doesn't have the Lyons.
There were no stories familiar to me in the Haddawy book, and I might have enjoyed it more if they had been included. Stories like Sinbad, Aladdin and Ali Baba are apparently later additions, and at least one is suspected to be the work of the French translator who first brought the stories to Europe. I may go back and read some of these in the Jonathan Scott translation at a later date, as I quite liked the samples I read from that collection. I'm glad to have read it, but just sorry I didn't enjoy it as much as fantasyfan has been doing. |
06-05-2017, 02:49 PM | #39 |
Wizard
Posts: 1,369
Karma: 26915798
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ireland
Device: Kindle Oasis 3, 4G, iPad Air 2, iPhone IE
|
I suspect that I am particularly prone to enjoy works like the Nights simply because I enjoy Fantasy in general so much. I can understand that they wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.
Personally, though, I feel that while there is no doubt but that the Haddawy translation is more readable than the Victorian attempts, what I found lacking in his approach was the exotic otherworldliness that exists in Lane and Burton and which Lyons also has. I felt, too, that he was shooting himself in the foot by refusing to include the "Orphan" tales in Galland which, rightly or not, have become part of the collection and which were included by Scott, Lane, Payne, and Burton. The first English translation of Galland was the famous "Grub Street" version. Jonathan Scott felt that Galland deserved a more literary approach and his 1811 version is really quite nice. It was and has remained fairly popular. If you are interested, the Delphi Classics ebook of the Arabian Nights is quite inexpensive and includes the complete translations of Scott, Payne, Burton, Lang and the adaptation by Julia Pardoe. (All are 19th century). Also included is Lane's Arabian Society In The Middle Ages. I think it is a treasure-trove! You could get all of those free as individual ebooks but it's nice to have them in one file and the ebook also has some very nice illustrations. Last edited by fantasyfan; 06-05-2017 at 06:50 PM. |
06-05-2017, 07:10 PM | #40 |
Snoozing in the sun
Posts: 10,137
Karma: 115423645
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch
|
I do enjoy myths and fairy tales, and reading about them. I love Marina Warner's books. I think it's fair enough that Haddawy was doing a translation of the Syrian manuscript, but I think he was being a bit of a purist to insist that it's the only really authentic version, when a collection of tales like that inevitably grows over time and with the number of countries that are contributing to it. And of course he has done a second volume of the other tales.
The Delphi Classics would certainly be a good one for the enthusiast. I can recommend Stranger Magic by Marina Warner, which is a quite scholarly study of the stories and their history. |
06-06-2017, 10:08 AM | #41 |
Wizard
Posts: 1,369
Karma: 26915798
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ireland
Device: Kindle Oasis 3, 4G, iPad Air 2, iPhone IE
|
Thank you for that suggestion, Bookpossum. Stranger Magic looks to be a remarkable book! I'll see if I can get it through the library as it's quite expensive in Kindle and Book Depository lists it as unavailable. The latter is a real pity since shipping is free and one gets a brand new book.
It is true that one can get a pb copy for a reasonable price on ABE but there the cost of shipping it to Ireland is prohibitive (e.g. a used pb book=$8.00/ shipping=$20.00 and up ) However, I'll keep it on my radar as it certainly looks intriguing. I do have a query on a different but related subject. Until this great bookclub came along I knew so little about the wealth of Australian literature. But one writer I had read and admired before that. I have The Ice Is Coming trilogy by Patricia Wrightson and I find it a wonderful fantasy--which I assume is drawn from aboriginal mythology. I personally think her work can be read with equal enjoyment by both children and adults--rather as is the case over here with Lloyd Alexander and C.S.Lewis. How is she regarded in Australia? I should add that this trilogy is the only thing I have read by her. If you have suggestions for more I would certainly appreciate them. Last edited by fantasyfan; 06-07-2017 at 02:45 AM. |
06-06-2017, 07:33 PM | #42 |
Snoozing in the sun
Posts: 10,137
Karma: 115423645
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch
|
I'll send you a PM, fantasyfan.
|
06-24-2017, 03:27 PM | #43 |
Wizard
Posts: 1,369
Karma: 26915798
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ireland
Device: Kindle Oasis 3, 4G, iPad Air 2, iPhone IE
|
To my delight I found that one can obtain an ebook copy of Sophia Lane Poole's book The Englishwoman In Egypt: Letters from Cairo during residence 1842, 43, 44 with E. W. Lane by his sister from the Internet Archive. While a number of downloads are offered, I have found that one should stick to PDF as the others (including both ePub and mobi) are usually riddled with errors. PDF works reasonably well on the iPad and similar tablets.
|
06-24-2017, 05:30 PM | #44 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,305
Karma: 43993832
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monroe Wisconsin
Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)
|
Quote:
|
|
06-27-2017, 06:36 PM | #45 |
Wizard
Posts: 1,369
Karma: 26915798
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ireland
Device: Kindle Oasis 3, 4G, iPad Air 2, iPhone IE
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Journey of a Thousand Miles | music4me | Reading Recommendations | 0 | 02-18-2011 05:32 PM |
A thousand apologies | valb2953 | Calibre | 1 | 12-10-2010 08:04 PM |
Fantasy Anonymous (Burton Tr): The Thousand Nights and a Night, v.1, 29 September 2008 | Patricia | Kindle Books | 14 | 04-03-2009 11:18 AM |
Fantasy Anonymous (Burton Tr): The Thousand Nights and a Night, v.1, 29 September 2008 | Patricia | BBeB/LRF Books | 3 | 10-01-2008 03:55 PM |
Fantasy Anonymous (Burton Tr): The Thousand Nights and a Night, v.1, 29 September 2008 | Patricia | IMP Books | 0 | 09-29-2008 11:15 AM |