Register Guidelines E-Books Today's Posts Search

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Sony Reader

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-16-2008, 05:09 PM   #1
higgs
Connoisseur
higgs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicing
 
higgs's Avatar
 
Posts: 77
Karma: 149999
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ireland
Device: Kobo Glo, Kobo Touch, Kindle PW3
ePub - Changing Font size doesn't change page numbers

Has anyone else noticed that when you change font size on an epub book the total page number does not change, however on lrf books when you increase the font size the total page number increases and when you decrease the font size the total page number decreases?
higgs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2008, 06:52 PM   #2
llasram
Reticulator of Tharn
llasram ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.llasram ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.llasram ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.llasram ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.llasram ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.llasram ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.llasram ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.llasram ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.llasram ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.llasram ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.llasram ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
llasram's Avatar
 
Posts: 618
Karma: 400000
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: EST
Device: Sony PRS-505
Quote:
Originally Posted by higgs View Post
Has anyone else noticed that when you change font size on an epub book the total page number does not change, however on lrf books when you increase the font size the total page number increases and when you decrease the font size the total page number decreases?
The Sony BBeB renderer counts "pages" in units of "screenfuls of text." ADE counts pages either at specific points in the text specified by a separate "page map" (an Adobe extension to EPUB, although they're trying to get it in the standard spec) or -- more commonly, if there is no page map -- it interprets every 1024 bytes of source-content as a "page." This results in some pretty weird pages (for example, a complex SVG image may cross multiple "pages"), but at least gives consistent page numbers across all screen and font sizes.

Last edited by llasram; 08-16-2008 at 06:55 PM.
llasram is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 08-16-2008, 07:12 PM   #3
higgs
Connoisseur
higgs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicing
 
higgs's Avatar
 
Posts: 77
Karma: 149999
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ireland
Device: Kobo Glo, Kobo Touch, Kindle PW3
I think I prefer the Sony BBeb renderer way of counting pages, i think it is more intuitive and gives a better feel of where you are within the book. With the epub books you can end up going from page 3 to page 3 then to page 3/4 etc.
higgs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2008, 07:30 PM   #4
kovidgoyal
creator of calibre
kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kovidgoyal's Avatar
 
Posts: 44,653
Karma: 24495948
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
Yeah I agree, pages are an outmoded concept that really doesn't have any place in ebooks. A progress indicator (as a % is all that's really needed). Unfortunately, people are going to jump through hoops to try to simulate page numbers to encourage ebook adoption...
kovidgoyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2008, 07:40 PM   #5
Hadrien
Feedbooks.com Co-Founder
Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.
 
Hadrien's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,263
Karma: 145123
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Paris, France
Device: Sony PRS-t-1/350/300/500/505/600/700, Nexus S, iPad
I kinda like the way DE treat pages, although I hate the fact that the page numbers are displayed in the margin. As for a progress indicator: I don't think that a progress bar is useful, you don't fully grasp how far you are. And a % indicator might not be precise enough and wouldn't give you another useful information of a page system: total # of pages. Since DE pages can flow across multiple screens, I'm not sure we should even call them pages anyway.
Hadrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 08-16-2008, 08:03 PM   #6
kovidgoyal
creator of calibre
kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kovidgoyal's Avatar
 
Posts: 44,653
Karma: 24495948
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
"Total number of pages" is meaningless for reflowable content. What you really need is an indication of "how long will it take me to read this" This simplest metric is probably (total number of characters)/5000. I just picked 5000 as the average number of characters on an "average" page.
kovidgoyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2008, 08:04 PM   #7
higgs
Connoisseur
higgs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicinghiggs causes much rejoicing
 
higgs's Avatar
 
Posts: 77
Karma: 149999
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ireland
Device: Kobo Glo, Kobo Touch, Kindle PW3
I can see where kovid is coming from with the % progress but I still think Sony have it right, ie 'Page X of Y', which automatically updates when you change font size.
This way you can tell exactly where you are within the book and the total number of 'screens' left to read, no matter which font size you are using.
higgs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2008, 09:24 PM   #8
rhadin
Literacy = Understanding
rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
rhadin's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,833
Karma: 59674358
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The World of Books
Device: Nook, Nook Tablet
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
A progress indicator (as a % is all that's really needed).
For me, a progress indicator as a % is OK only as a supplement to the way the Sony BeBB system works. I like knowing that I'm on page 560 of 800, even though I realize that refers to screen changes, not to real pages. Telling me that I'm at 70% is kind of meaningless.
rhadin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2008, 09:48 PM   #9
kovidgoyal
creator of calibre
kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kovidgoyal's Avatar
 
Posts: 44,653
Karma: 24495948
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhadin View Post
For me, a progress indicator as a % is OK only as a supplement to the way the Sony BeBB system works. I like knowing that I'm on page 560 of 800, even though I realize that refers to screen changes, not to real pages. Telling me that I'm at 70% is kind of meaningless.
I suspect that if you actually use the % measure for a bit, you'll get used to it. But doing screenfulls is fine, since you dont have to jump through any hoops to calculate the number of screens.
kovidgoyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2008, 10:27 PM   #10
Hadrien
Feedbooks.com Co-Founder
Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.
 
Hadrien's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,263
Karma: 145123
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Paris, France
Device: Sony PRS-t-1/350/300/500/505/600/700, Nexus S, iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
"Total number of pages" is meaningless for reflowable content. What you really need is an indication of "how long will it take me to read this" This simplest metric is probably (total number of characters)/5000. I just picked 5000 as the average number of characters on an "average" page.
A progress bar and % is not enough because you need to know how long the book is. In DE's case, instead of a total number of pages, it is rather a unit based on the size of the flows. It is very close to what you describe kovid.
Hadrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2008, 01:18 AM   #11
RobbieClarken
Addict
RobbieClarken ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RobbieClarken ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RobbieClarken ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RobbieClarken ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RobbieClarken ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RobbieClarken ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RobbieClarken ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RobbieClarken ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RobbieClarken ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RobbieClarken ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RobbieClarken ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 371
Karma: 1002274
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Device: Kindle
I like the way DE uses the same number regardless of zoom because it makes it much easier if you want to refer someone to a section of the book. It's also useful if you want to look up a page (if you are switching between the paper and electronic versions of a book for example).
RobbieClarken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2008, 10:27 AM   #12
astra
The Introvert
astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
astra's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,307
Karma: 1000077497
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650 & 505 & 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by higgs View Post
I think I prefer the Sony BBeb renderer way of counting pages, i think it is more intuitive and gives a better feel of where you are within the book. With the epub books you can end up going from page 3 to page 3 then to page 3/4 etc.
Ditto. I disliked this feature of epub. Very confusing. Page 899-900 arghhhhh....

I downloaded The Count of Monte Cristo from feedbooks and was not impressed by this format.

a. It takes ages to load TOC if the book is long.
b. Page numbering is interfering with Sony Reader's feature.
c. Page numbers on the right side of the text are annyoing.
d. If you read on M or L, the the right side of the screen looks like "broken teeth" or broken paragraphs, something I always tried to avoid but it is very prominent with epub on 6" screen. Maybe on bigger screens it will be less noticeable. Maybe I am used to a uniform look of LRF on the right hand side unless the paragraphs ends. But I will stick to LRF for now.

Quote:
I still think Sony have it right, ie 'Page X of Y', which automatically updates when you change font size.
This way you can tell exactly where you are within the book and the total number of 'screens' left to read, no matter which font size you are using.
I feel the same about page numbering. I absolutely love Sony Reader's page numbering implementation.

Last edited by astra; 08-17-2008 at 12:33 PM.
astra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2008, 10:35 AM   #13
astra
The Introvert
astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.astra ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
astra's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,307
Karma: 1000077497
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650 & 505 & 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadrien View Post
A progress bar and % is not enough because you need to know how long the book is.
Exactly.
astra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 04:00 AM   #14
Pinkelman
Junior Member
Pinkelman began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 8
Karma: 10
Join Date: Nov 2007
Device: Sony PRS-505
Using pagenumbers for navigating a book isn't very useful, when different fonts or fontsizes affect the content of your screen (which you associate with "page").
Using chapters could be handy for some books, if chapters were build in the bookfiles and some dedicated buttons could serve as go-to-next-chapter-buttons.
Pinkelman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2008, 07:42 AM   #15
Hadrien
Feedbooks.com Co-Founder
Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.
 
Hadrien's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,263
Karma: 145123
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Paris, France
Device: Sony PRS-t-1/350/300/500/505/600/700, Nexus S, iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by astra View Post
c. Page numbers on the right side of the text are annyoing.
d. If you read on M or L, the the right side of the screen looks like "broken teeth" or broken paragraphs, something I always tried to avoid but it is very prominent with epub on 6" screen. Maybe on bigger screens it will be less noticeable. Maybe I am used to a uniform look of LRF on the right hand side unless the paragraphs ends. But I will stick to LRF for now.
Both have absolutely nothing to do with ePub as a format, they're choices that DE made.
I don't like having page numbers in the right margin either, but it seems that Sony specifically asked Adobe to keep them, since a page can begin in the middle of the screen.
What you call broken teeth I guess, is due to the lack of justification in the current rendering engine. I really believe that the current crop of readers need both justification and hyphenation to render something that really looks like a book. Some users might dislike using justified text and hyphenation though, and both should be available as options that yo could disable.
Hadrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
epub, new frimware, page numbers


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can't change font or font size in ereaders jmacg Sigil 30 10-23-2010 10:21 PM
Troubleshooting Font size changing Kumabjorn Amazon Kindle 1 07-23-2010 01:49 AM
DR1000 Changing Font-Size ThR iRex 6 06-21-2010 07:29 AM
Problem with epub to lrf with changing font size and line spacing kleinbiker Calibre 4 12-17-2009 09:55 AM
Changing lrf font size Oletros Sony Reader 11 03-19-2008 08:10 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:21 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.