Fonts won't embed on Kindle Fire

[NIRC]

I have been writing to Kindle (and asking on Forums) for at least 5 years about the problem with embedding fonts in mobi files for the Kindle Fire and later. I have only one proprietary font that needs to be embedded. It is not, and instead, nonsense shows up.
For about a 6-month period a little over a year ago, files uploaded on the Kindle web page actually accepted the font. I was surprised and immediately prepared the book for publication. Then it no longer did and now I cannot update it or add additional volumes requiring the same proprietary font.
I have tried The latest Kindle Previewers as they come out as well as Caliber, but nothing seems to work. The fonts embed fine in epub format and the file I made in 2019 that was accepted displays perfectly on my Kindle Fire. So I know it is not impossible.
Also, no matter whom I talk to at KDP by chat or phone, no one has any answer, and most of them try to assure me that there is no problem. I even sent screen shots of the same page when it did work and when it did not. No answer.
Alas, there is no way to get into a mobi file as there is with epub files, to see what has gone wrong.
I don't see how difficult this can be to fix. At least it would be nice to receive some formal recognition of the problem...

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by NIRC

I have been writing to Kindle (and asking on Forums) for at least 5 years about the problem with embedding fonts in mobi files for the Kindle Fire and later. I have only one proprietary font that needs to be embedded. It is not, and instead, nonsense shows up.
For about a 6-month period a little over a year ago, files uploaded on the Kindle web page actually accepted the font. I was surprised and immediately prepared the book for publication. Then it no longer did and now I cannot update it or add additional volumes requiring the same proprietary font.
I have tried The latest Kindle Previewers as they come out as well as Caliber, but nothing seems to work. The fonts embed fine in epub format and the file I made in 2019 that was accepted displays perfectly on my Kindle Fire. So I know it is not impossible.
Also, no matter whom I talk to at KDP by chat or phone, no one has any answer, and most of them try to assure me that there is no problem. I even sent screen shots of the same page when it did work and when it did not. No answer.
Alas, there is no way to get into a mobi file as there is with epub files, to see what has gone wrong.
I don't see how difficult this can be to fix. At least it would be nice to receive some formal recognition of the problem...

Not all fonts work, embedded in Kindle, but what font, specifically, are you trying to embed? And how are you testing it, exactly?

There's no reason to really "get into" a mobi file for troubleshooting, but you can unpack them, using the Calibre unpack plugin, if needed. It emulates what's occurred, but it's useful for tracking wholly unexpected results.

If you can provide a bit more detail, my firm has been embedding fonts since it was first enabled, so it's something with which we have a lot of familiarity.

Hitch

[NIRC]

The font is a proprietary font I made to show the stroke order of Chinese characters. It works perfectly in all epub books, but mobi rejects it.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by NIRC

The font is a proprietary font I made to show the stroke order of Chinese characters. It works perfectly in all epub books, but mobi rejects it.

So, you're saying that when you embed the font, and then try to build the MOBI using Kindle Previewer (?), the font doesn't even work there, is that right? It's not that the font is working at the KP level and then is ripped out, at KDP?

Have you downloaded the Preview MOBI files, and unpacked them, to investigate the code and the files, to see what's been changed?

Hitch

[NIRC]

I embed the font in an EPUB file (generated with InDesign). It displays perfectly. Then I used Calibre to convert it to MOBI. The font does not display. Next, I tried Kindle Previewer 3 to convert to MOBI. Again, no go.
Franky, I don't know how to check the code in the MOBI files governing embedded fonts for changes from that in the EPUB. But thanks for asking...

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by NIRC

I embed the font in an EPUB file (generated with InDesign). It displays perfectly. Then I used Calibre to convert it to MOBI. The font does not display. Next, I tried Kindle Previewer 3 to convert to MOBI. Again, no go.
Franky, I don't know how to check the code in the MOBI files governing embedded fonts for changes from that in the EPUB. But thanks for asking...

Well, Calibre "MOBI" isn't a KF8/KF7 package, a "dual mobi" and that older format is no longer supported by KDP, so that one is explicable. The MOBI file generated by KP3 is completely different than that which is created by Calibre.

When you say that you 'embedd[ed] the font in an EPUB...generated with InDesign," how exactly are you doing that? Are you opening up the file in Sigil, and adding the font? And ensuring that the font is called correctly, in the CSS?

Or are you assuming that because you call it in InDesign, that it's being embedded correctly in the ePUB? Are you subsetting the fonts, in INDD, when you export them?

If you test an ePUB that you made before, does the font still render, or no? Is the font an otf or ttf file?

Amazon, KDP and the eBook format of "MOBI" is not a static thing. Fonts that worked in, say, 2015-2016 don't necessarily work today and fonts that didn't, do (yeah, I'm lookin' at you, Papyrus!). If you want font embedding to work in MOBI, or for that matter, ePUB, as both are moving targets, you really do need to learn at least enough to read the coding in the ePUB (or HTML source files, etc.) and the resulting MOBI. This isn't a criticism, but we've had to adjust our font embedding more than once, over the years, to change with the altered rendering schema of KDP.

Offered FWIW.

Hitch

[jhowell]

EPUB supports font obfuscation, a form of DRM. I don't know whether or not InDesign performs font obfuscation, but if it does that might prevent the font from being used by the Kindle Previewer.

Does the Kindle Previewer's conversion log show any errors or warnings?

[jhowell]

Another question that comes to mind is how are you viewing the converted file?

Are you selecting "Publisher font" instead of one of Amazon's built-in fonts in at Aa menu?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by jhowell

EPUB supports font obfuscation, a form of DRM. I don't know whether or not InDesign performs font obfuscation, but if it does that might prevent the font from being used by the Kindle Previewer.

Does the Kindle Previewer's conversion log show any errors or warnings?

Ohhh, good one, I forgot to ask about the Obfuscation.

Originally Posted by jhowell

Another question that comes to mind is how are you viewing the converted file?

Are you selecting "Publisher font" instead of one of Amazon's built-in fonts in at Aa menu?

And another GREAT question.

Hitch

[NIRC]

InDesign gives the option to "embed fonts," so that is what I do. The font is not used throughout the whole file, only at certain points, so I would not use the Kindle font-choice option. The font is TIFF, but I converted it to OTF and there was no change.
And no, there are no error messages when I convert the file to MOBI either with Calibre of Kindle Previewer.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by NIRC

InDesign gives the option to "embed fonts," so that is what I do. The font is not used throughout the whole file, only at certain points, so I would not use the Kindle font-choice option. The font is TIFF, but I converted it to OTF and there was no change.
And no, there are no error messages when I convert the file to MOBI either with Calibre of Kindle Previewer.

• So, you don't know if the font has been obfuscated, or not, in the exported ePUB from InDesign?
• And you don't know if you have it set to Publisher Fonts (which MUST BE turned on, if you expect to see your embedded font, in any Paperwhite device OR in Previewer 3).
• And you haven't tried to convert the older files, that you say did work previously, to see if any of those convert?
• And we still don't know how you are viewing the converted file, in terms of knowing whether the font is working or not, other than Calibre or KP3?

It would help if you could answer these questions, or try these steps, so that we can help you. So far, all you've said is that it used to work and now it doesn't, and with all due respect, you're on an eBook-making forum, that talks about working in HTML and CSS and you seem to be limiting yourself to whatever comes out of InDesign and using Calibre, presumably because it's fairly push-button. And I just told you that a Calibre MOBI won't have working fonts--it can't. Because it's a KF7 version, which didn't have font embedding. At the very least, you'd need to test AZW.

Hitch

[Quoth]

Calibre can make two kinds of Mobi
1) Old Mobi. KF7, there are no embedded fonts. Though there are KF7 with embedded fonts?
2) Dual Mobi. Only good for Smashwords or other non-Amazon kindle distribution. It's got the Old Mobi KF7 and the Azw KF8 in one file. It will embed fonts if you ticked the embed fonts when you made an epub2 from a docx.

Calibre can make two sorts of epub.
3) epub2.
4) epub3. Do not use epub3 unless you know you need it (notice in Calibre).

Calibre can make azw KF8 too.

There are plugins for KFX and kepub.

Always start by importing a docx to Calibre and convert it with embedded fonts to epub2. Make all other formats from the epub2.
You shouldn't upload azw or dual mobi to Amazon and uploading old mobi is pointless, though it works. Best to upload is epub2. 2nd best is a docx.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Calibre can make two kinds of Mobi
1) Old Mobi. KF7, there are no embedded fonts. Though there are KF7 with embedded fonts?
2) Dual Mobi. Only good for Smashwords or other non-Amazon kindle distribution. It's got the Old Mobi KF7 and the Azw KF8 in one file. It will embed fonts if you ticked the embed fonts when you made an epub2 from a docx.

Right, but he keeps saying MOBI, which leads me to believe that he's outputting a MOBI, which is the KF7.

The newer KF8/Dual is an AZW, isn't it? The actual file extension? Or am I confused? (You can tell how much I use Calibre, right?)

Hitch

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by jhowell

EPUB supports font obfuscation, a form of DRM. I don't know whether or not InDesign performs font obfuscation, but if it does that might prevent the font from being used by the Kindle Previewer.

InDesign does perform font obfuscation. At one point it used Adobe's method but I think it now uses the IDPF method.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Right, but he keeps saying MOBI, which leads me to believe that he's outputting a MOBI, which is the KF7.

The newer KF8/Dual is an AZW, isn't it? The actual file extension? Or am I confused? (You can tell how much I use Calibre, right?)

Hitch

Well, if you convert to an AZW in Calibre, by default it's KF8 and ends in .azw
If you make a mobi in Calibre, by default it's old mobi (KF7?) and ends in .mobi, though I only make dual mobis in Calibre, purely for Smashwords' Kindle downloads. They end in mobi.

And on Kindles you have to select Publisher on aA even if it's a dual or azw, on most Kindles, to see the original embedded fonts. Which needs 3.x something or later FW. So an updated Kindle Keyboard, but not the slightly later DXG as it never got that option (not enough RAM because it's really a DX with a newer screen).