Standard eBooks is looking for supporters

[ZodWallop]

I have no association with Standard Ebooks. But I value the work they do.

They are doing a fund drive, hoping to reach 50 patrons by April 15. So far there's 10

You can make a recurring donation or a one-time. I signed up for $2 a month. It's not through Patreon, but something called Fractured Atlas, which is new to me.

Anyway, if interested you can donate here: Join the patrons circle

[JSWolf]

I would not give Standard Ebooks any money unless they did the right thing and stopped with their overly complicated code that doesn't work in most cases.

All they need do is use simple code and they can have one ePub copy of each book that would work on more programs.devices. Instead they want to use the latest and mostly unsupported code.

[DiapDealer]

If not interested in supporting, Jon, a more appropriate response probably would have been silence. It's a very niche few who care what's "under the hood" of an epub.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I would not give Standard Ebooks any money unless they did the right thing and stopped with their overly complicated code that doesn't work in most cases.

All they need do is use simple code and they can have one ePub copy of each book that would work on more programs.devices. Instead they want to use the latest and mostly unsupported code.

So you're a maybe...

Really though, I can understand that maybe you don't like the way they code things. That's your right as an American.

But I have not had any issues with one of their books on any of my Nooks or Kobos (I always download the 'compatible ePub' and convert to kepub using the Calibre plug-in for my Kobos).

At any rate, I'm happy to have given you yet another whack at one of your dead horses. I also mentioned Nook, so don't forget you don't like the way they feel or whatever.

[twowheels]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I would not give Standard Ebooks any money unless they did the right thing and stopped with their overly complicated code that doesn't work in most cases.

All they need do is use simple code and they can have one ePub copy of each book that would work on more programs.devices. Instead they want to use the latest and mostly unsupported code.

They have a standard epub and advanced epub option for every book that I’ve ever seen. What’s wrong with them having the option of advanced epubs for users who have devices that can support them? If anything, this gives motivation to implementers to add those features. Shouldn’t you be more upset with the epub standards body or the software authors who don’t implement the features than Standard Epub for trying to use those features?

I’ve not unpacked one of their books to compare the two formats, but I’m curious what about their template that you consider “overly complicated”.

[twowheels]

…OK, I got curious and downloaded a book in both formats and extracted them to perform a diff. Here’s what seems to differ:

- SVG instead of PNG images for the things that are naturally scalable — seems like a good thing

- Ever so slightly different TOC format, seems to be a wash

- The text/ folder has far fewer redundant tags in the new format, making the content files smaller, seems to be a good thing. For example, in this book there is a bit of french mixed in, and I see <i lang=“fr” xml:lang=“fr”> in the standard version, and the advanced version is missing the former lang, only containing the xml:lang bit.

- The CSS seems to be very simplified… the standard version contains a lot of top-right-bottom-left attributes, whereas the advanced version only specifies them as one value, and then the standard version has a HUGE section that says “for legacy reading systems” that seem to be to account for various non compliant devices.

I’m not seeing the overly complicated bit anywhere — it looks very clean to me.

[EDIT: Also downloaded a kepub, and it was basically the std epub w/ some of the Nook specific css missing and a bunch of kobo spans… — still not seeing the problem, it’s almost entirely boring HTML. ]

[ownedbycats]

@twowheels - you're honestly just wasting time trying to argue with Jon

[twowheels]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

@twowheels - you're honestly just wasting time trying to argue with Jon

Well, at least I learned a lot by poking around the epub and CSS files.

[Aleron Ives]

It may be worth noting that if you have time but not money, you can also volunteer to work on one of the books on their wantlist: https://standardebooks.org/contribute/wanted-ebooks

I have read some of their books on my Kobo, and it's been a pleasant experience.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

But I have not had any issues with one of their books on any of my Nooks or Kobos (I always download the 'compatible ePub' and convert to kepub using the Calibre plug-in for my Kobos).

The way Jon spins it, it is as if they do not have any formats other than their Advanced epub which comes with the warning that it may not be fully supported by all ereaders. Compatible ePub? Kepub? Azw3? Nope, never seen them.

Oddly, I've downloaded a few of their advanced epubs, converted them locally to kepub and they seem to work without issue on my Kobo ereaders. Yes, their stylesheets are a bit complex but they are relatively easy to simplify and they are consistent in each generation of their CSS.

Of course, this is the same Jon who recently jumped into a discussion of semantic tags (<em>, <strong>) vs. visual tags (<i>, <b>) to keep insisting there is no difference between <i> and <em> since they are visually the same. At a WEG, he only reads using his eyes and knows no one who needs or wants to use TTS which makes worrying about accessibility a non-issue in his world. After all, it makes the ebook CSS more complex.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by twowheels

Well, at least I learned a lot by poking around the epub and CSS files.

One of the best ways to learn. At times, I was surprised when I found there were good reasons for what appeared to be a bit of complex CSS. If nothing, else, my current stylesheet has [stroke]stolen[/stroke] borrowed items from multiple sources.

“If you get information from one source, it’s called plagiarism; if you get it from two or more sources, it’s called research.”—Leslie Henson

[ownedbycats]

Standard Ebooks' output is better than some retail books I've seen.

Originally Posted by DNSB

Of course, this is the same Jon who recently jumped into a discussion of semantic tags (<em>, <strong>) vs. visual tags (<i>, <b>) to keep insisting there is no difference between <i> and <em> since they are visually the same. At a WEG, he only reads using his eyes and knows no one who needs or wants to use TTS which makes worrying about accessibility a non-issue in his world. After all, it makes the ebook CSS more complex.

oh good lord

[Kindleing]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

You can make a recurring donation or a one-time. I signed up for $2 a month. It's not through Patreon, but something called Fractured Atlas, which is new to me.

Anyway, if interested you can donate here: Join the patrons circle

Fractured Atlas was new to me too; it turns out they are a charitable fund raising organization (tax deductable) for arts groups.

I hadn't paid much attention to Standard Ebooks so I poked around for awhile. I found some things I didn't know were available so I signed up. I recently dropped my Kindle Unlimited subscription because I wasn't using it, so I figured I could shift the money to these folks.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Standard Ebooks' output is better than some retail books I've seen.

Better than some major publishers and they charge a lot less. Also no DRM so Jon can easily tweak them to his own taste.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

If not interested in supporting, Jon, a more appropriate response probably would have been silence. It's a very niche few who care what's "under the hood" of an epub.

The CCS fails when viewed with an older version of ADE. That is one of the problems. And there's no good reason this needs to happen with eBooks who's formatting is not complicated at all and all they need is a simple CSS.