Are B&W E-ink Screens As Good As They Can Be Now?

[apastuszak]

We now have 300 ppi e-ink panels in most major e-readers, which looks amazing to the eye and, to me, just as good as a printed book.

Have we now hit "peak B&W e-ink" and further innovations will only happen with color epaper panels?

I really love the look of e-ink's Gallery 3 panels. The color and vibrancy are just as good as a printed magazine. But the page turns are so painfully slow.

I know there is a lot of being done on reflective LCD panels. But those are still backlit. They just use ambient light. So they're still harsh on the eyes compared to e-ink.

Hopefully we'll get a good, vibrant color eink panel one day with fast page refreshes.

[ZodWallop]

It does feel like they hit Carta and it's just been incremental improvements.

I think there is plenty of room for an even better B&W e-ink screen. But that's just not where the interest is right now.

[Dazrin]

I think they are working on "same performance, lower cost" tweaks at this point. There are still improvements to be made. For example, if they can replicate the old Voyage screens in a lower cost way that would be excellent and improve most readers.

[apastuszak]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

It does feel like they hit Carta and it's just been incremental improvements.

I think there is plenty of room for an even better B&W e-ink screen. But that's just not where the interest is right now.

What would you consider "even better?"

The only thing I can think of is faster page refreshes maybe.

[apastuszak]

I wonder if we're ever going to solve the color e-ink problem.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by apastuszak

What would you consider "even better?"

The only thing I can think of is faster page refreshes maybe.

I don't know about feasibility, but:

• Blacker blacks
• Whiter whites
• Less glare

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

It does feel like they hit Carta and it's just been incremental improvements.

I think there is plenty of room for an even better B&W e-ink screen. But that's just not where the interest is right now.

I know this might sound like an odd thing to say, but I've been using older eReaders lately and the "greyer" background doesn't seem a whole lot different than the effect you get from the warm light in the newer eReaders. Maybe my eyes are just odd. (Plus I've been using the amber light on the Glocusent on the non front-lit readers and I'm finding I like the light off the screen a little further.)

Makes me wonder how much more advanced black and white screens need to get.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I know this might sound like an odd thing to say, but I've been using older eReaders lately and the "greyer" background doesn't seem a whole lot different than the effect you get from the warm light in the newer eReaders. Maybe my eyes are just odd. (Plus I've been using the amber light on the Glocusent on the non front-lit readers and I'm finding I like the light off the screen a little further.)

Makes me wonder how much more advanced black and white screens need to get.

No, Pearl with no front light or touch layers with good ambient light isn't much worse than Carta or Carta 1200. My 6″ 167 dpi K3 or 5″ PRS-350 isn't that bad. Far better than the earlier screens.

The changes in 300 dpi screens in last 10 years are marginal. Very slowly the DPI is increasing to 300 dpi or toward 300 dpi on bigger screens.

It looks like there are only minor tweeks over the last 11 years. Kaleido is nearly 4 years old and conceptually older than 2005 eink, it's just a tweak to the printed on top colour filter array (CFA). Triton was simply the standard LCD colour overlay.

The ACeP is something different, but for signage/adverts. About 10 times slower than eink.

Full 14 greys, black and white quality refresh has hardly improved in speed since Regal on Carta 10 years ago. The faster modes are poorer quality and higher power consumption.

Pearl and Carta were the two big upgrades from visiplex.a

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by apastuszak

What would you consider "even better?"

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I don't know about feasibility, but:

• Blacker blacks
• Whiter whites

Pretty much that. I'm not saying the NEED these improvements. Just saying that there is room for improvement on black and white screens, though I suspect their time on stage is limited.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I know this might sound like an odd thing to say, but I've been using older eReaders lately and the "greyer" background doesn't seem a whole lot different than the effect you get from the warm light in the newer eReaders. Maybe my eyes are just odd. (Plus I've been using the amber light on the Glocusent on the non front-lit readers and I'm finding I like the light off the screen a little further.)

I have spent the last ten(?) days reading on a Nook STG, which does have a Pearl screen with the light layer and the touch layer and honestly, it was okay. I was on a cruise, reading way too much in many conditions: direct sunlight, at dusk and in a darkened room (I missed amber lighting then).

The firmware was limiting because it was Nook and it is a dozen years old, so I faced issues searching for my next read. But the reading experience was just fine.

I'm still reading on it now, because I'm still loading books on my fresh Clara BW and I'm waiting on the slow boat from China to deliver my case.

Makes me wonder how much more advanced black and white screens need to get.

Need to get? Not a whole lot. I'm just saying they could get better.

[Quoth]

Touch is OK on the Sony PRS-350 Pearl because it's IR, no extra layers.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Touch is OK on the Sony PRS-350 Pearl because it's IR, no extra layers.

I didn't find an issue with my Sony PRS-650 or my Kobo Aura H2O. Both use IR and they worked quite well. More so then just OK.

As to the topic, if Readers stopped capacitance touch and went back to IR, we'd have better looking screen as there would be one less layer over their screen.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Quoth

The changes in 300 dpi screens in last 10 years are marginal. Very slowly the DPI is increasing to 300 dpi or toward 300 dpi on bigger screens.

It looks like there are only minor tweeks over the last 11 years.

Yep. This is why my newest Kobo is the Aura One. I can't justify the outlay for a marginal improvement (and I dislike the blockier form factor of the Sage anyway).

The battery's not that great, but then it never was and it's too big to be an out-an-about reader so it's not a big deal.

[John F]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I didn't find an issue with my Sony PRS-650 or my Kobo Aura H2O. Both use IR and they worked quite well. More so then just OK.

As to the topic, if Readers stopped capacitance touch and went back to IR, we'd have better looking screen as there would be one less layer over their screen.

Maybe, maybe not. Wasn't the Voyage a capacitance screen, and wasn't it one of the best screens at the time?

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by John F

Maybe, maybe not. Wasn't the Voyage a capacitance screen, and wasn't it one of the best screens at the time?

Yes.

There was only one Kindle with an IR touchscreen, Kindle Touch (I have one right here).

Its successor, the PW1, was a step backward for clarity, despite its higher resolution display, due to additional layers for front light guide and capacitive touch. And less than half the storage, no audio/TTS, and most controversially at the time no physical Home button! It was a pretty miserable device. Was that the last one Bezos participated in a launch event for? Cannot remember.

At one point I had 2 Voyages, and gave one to my sister (she's still using it). A few weeks later my remaining one bricked itself after an update. I have moved on, and don't miss it. I would find it difficult to go back to a 6" screen even if it was as good as Voyage's.