Asimov's Foundation fans...

Karellen · 09-20-2021, 03:05 AM

I recently finished a 45 book reading journey encompassing Isaac Asimov's Robot, Galactic and Foundation Series (Asimov Universe). Honestly it was a very rocky ride and not totally enjoyable for me.

But... the saving grace was when I discovered the Final Foundation Trilogy which beautifully tied up the loose ends and confused storylines while also making quite a few stunning revelations about the characters and the storylines.

The author is self published and his books are available to download for free.

He has completed the first two books - Foundation and Second Empire in 2013 and The Robots of the Interregnum in 2018. Untitled book 3 is still a WIP and a couple of years off. (I have corresponded with the author)

His site can be found here... https://ibmjob.dk/

Dr. Drib · 09-20-2021, 08:34 AM

I thought the Asimov estate took these down, along with a cease and desist order.

Do you have an update on this, and if it's still an issue?

Quoth · 09-20-2021, 08:58 AM

I liked the original Asimov, but not the post 1980s ones, or the post 1980s combining Robot and Foundation storyverses.

This seems to be some sort of Fan-fiction or sequel fiction and not even Asimov. The legal position is only clear on works out of copyright, like additional Jane Austin or Sherlock Holmes, few of which are worth reading.

Good contemporary writers usually only write additional titles in a Storyverse when paid to by an Estate or Publisher. Even then the results are variable.

There are no shortage of SF titles that are well written.

Dr. Drib · 09-20-2021, 09:04 AM

Thanks, Quoth.

Pajamaman · 09-20-2021, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karellen

I recently finished a 45 book reading journey encompassing Isaac Asimov's Robot, Galactic and Foundation Series (Asimov Universe). Honestly it was a very rocky ride and not totally enjoyable for me.

But... the saving grace was when I discovered the Final Foundation Trilogy which beautifully tied up the loose ends and confused storylines while also making quite a few stunning revelations about the characters and the storylines.

The author is self published and his books are available to download for free.

He has completed the first two books - Foundation and Second Empire in 2013 and The Robots of the Interregnum in 2018. Untitled book 3 is still a WIP and a couple of years off. (I have corresponded with the author)

His site can be found here... https://ibmjob.dk/

Thanks, Karellen. I glimpsed the start and they well written. There is a book, originally short story that develops the Foundation universe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistorical_Crisis

There was also a trilogy developing the Foundation written. The final one was by David Brin.

And then there was the Caliban trilogy that continued the robot universe.

Asimov wrote a lot and a lot of it is not that great. I question if reading his entire opus start to finish is advisable. There is plenty of stuff by him that I have not and will never read. But when he is good, he deserves his reputation, IMO.

I presume you are also a fan of Clarke.

Pajamaman · 09-20-2021, 09:39 AM

I'm surprised this is a legal issue. The author is not charging money.

Dr. Drib · 09-20-2021, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

I'm surprised this is a legal issue. The author is not charging money.

Quoth cleared that up regarding my post, so it's not a legal issue.

(However, those two covers are horrible - in my opinion.)

JSWolf · 09-20-2021, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

Quoth cleared that up regarding my post, so it's not a legal issue.

(However, those two covers are horrible - in my opinion.)

I see you like the covers better then I do.

Quoth · 09-20-2021, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

I'm surprised this is a legal issue. The author is not charging money.

Free or charged is irrelevant if trademarked character names or copyright infringement is involved.
You can do your version of Snow White, or a sequel, but you can't use Disney's names for the Dwarves. Even if it's given away free.
You can easily do a Harry Potter book where there is no magic and Harry is a Police Inspector and has no connection to J Rowling's Harry Potter.

Pajamaman · 09-20-2021, 03:17 PM

In psychohitorical crisis the author changes the names. Could I have something written in an identical world with identical characters but change the names and superficial details of things

Karellen · 09-20-2021, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

I thought the Asimov estate took these down, along with a cease and desist order.

Do you have an update on this, and if it's still an issue?

They were taken down from Amazon back circa 2013/2014. My understanding is that The Azimov estate said that no financial gain could be derived from the works, but had no problems with the works if they were free, which is why any donations are limited to that trivial amount of a couple of dollars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

Thanks, Karellen. I glimpsed the start and they well written. There is a book, originally short story that develops the Foundation universe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistorical_Crisis

There was also a trilogy developing the Foundation written. The final one was by David Brin.

And then there was the Caliban trilogy that continued the robot universe.

Asimov wrote a lot and a lot of it is not that great. I question if reading his entire opus start to finish is advisable. There is plenty of stuff by him that I have not and will never read. But when he is good, he deserves his reputation, IMO.

I presume you are also a fan of Clarke.

These final Foundation books are very well written, and quite complex which required me to take notes as there were a number of characters that the story followed. So all those Caliban, Prospero, No-law robots, modified law robots, original law robots are all covered in the novels, as well as Harry Seldon, Wanda, and the usual characters from the stories.

I never ended up reading Psychohistorical Crisis as I only discovered its existence when I had almost completed reading the Universe, and I did not feel like going back and reading more...

I definitely agree, Asimov wrote a lot and a lot of it was not great. I would not recommend anyone to read the entire opus the way I did. I find it highly frustrating at times and it came to a point where I couldn't wait to be finished. But I persisted.

My main thoughts are...
1. Most of the Robot stories are childish. It is not hard to imagine 12 year old boys, well after bedtime, hiding under their sheets with torch in hand marvelling at the talk of robots and space battles. Where quick-witted protagonists win the day with simple (and quite childish) arguments of logic, where enemies mutually respect each others efforts and graciously accept defeat and punishment. Where women are simply a petty hindrance (or entertainment) that have no capacity to understand the "workings of a mans world" and become hysterical or faint at the slightest provocation. Men are arrogantly proud and burst into anger at the minutest perceived disagreement or insult. These stories are simply 1950's society placed in a "futuristic" setting.

2. There is such an imbalance and mismatch of the level of technology in all of Asimov’s stories. How is it that scientists could invent the fabled Positronic Brain, with the billions of required nano based circuitry but computers are still at the punch-card level using vacuum tubes? This is the equivalent of inventing the combustion engine but not yet discovering the wheel.

I like the concept of Foundation, but not its delivery.

I do also like Arthur C. Clarke, and adore his (and supporting authors) Rama series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

(However, those two covers are horrible - in my opinion.)

The author told me he was hoping that a publisher would pick him up and sort out the Asimov Estate issues and they would, among other things, update the covers.

I contacted the author via his website to ask his progress on the final book. He stated it takes about 5 years to write so not to expect anything until circa 2023. We have corresponded a number of times since and he is a really nice and approachable person.

(edit. fix typ-o with date)

Karellen · 09-20-2021, 05:34 PM

And this is the reading order I put together while reading (a quick copy and paste out of one of the novels I reformatted)...

PHP Code:


			
<body style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:0.75em;">



  <h2>Reading Order</h2>

  <br />



  <ol>

    <li>I, Robot: To Protect – Mickey Zucker Reichert</li>

    <li>I, Robot: To Obey – Mickey Zucker Reichert</li>

    <li>I, Robot: To Preserve – Mickey Zucker Reichert</li>

    <li>The Complete Robot <span style="font-size:0.8em">(re-release of <em>I, Robot</em> and <em>Rest of the Robots</em>)</span></li>

    <ol style="list-style-type: circle;">

      <li>I, Robot – Isaac Asimov</li>

      <li>Rest of the Robots, The – Isaac Asimov</li>

      <li>Robot Visions – Isaac Asimov</li>

    </ol>

    <li>Robot Dreams – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Positronic Man, The – Isaac Asimov &amp; Robert Silverberg</li>

    <li>Nemesis – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Mother Earth – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>The Gods Themselves – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>The End of Eternity – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Caves of Steel, The – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Naked Sun, The – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Robots of Dawn, The – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Mirage – Mark W. Tiedemann</li>

    <li>Chimer – Mark W. Tiedemann</li>

    <li>Aurora – Mark W. Tiedemann</li>

    <li>Have Robot, Will Travel – Alexander C. Irvine</li>

    <li>Robots &amp; Empire – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Caliban – Roger MacBride Allen</li>

    <li>Inferno – Roger MacBride Allen</li>

    <li>Utopia – Roger MacBride Allen</li>

    <li>Stars, Like Dust, The – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Currents of Space, The – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Pebble in the Sky – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Prelude to Foundation – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Forward the Foundation – Isaac Asimov</li>

    

    <li>Foundation’s Fear – Gregory Benford<sup>1</sup></li>

    <li>Foundation and Chaos – Greg Bear<sup>2</sup></li>

    <li>Foundation’s Triumph – David Brin<sup>3</sup></li>      



    <li>Foundation – Isaac Asimov<sup>4</sup></li>    



    <li>Foundation and Empire – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Second Foundation – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Foundation’s Edge – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Foundation and Earth – Isaac Asimov</li>

    <li>Psychohistorical Crisis – Donald Kingsbury</li>



    <li>Foundation and Second Empire – Jeffery Owen Brown<sup>5</sup></li>

    <li>The Robots of the Interregnum – Jeffery Owen Brown<sup>5</sup></li>

    <li>Book 3 Final Foundation – Jeffery Owen Brown<sup>5, 6</sup></li>

  </ol>



<p class="noindent"><sup>1</sup> Takes place between Part One and Part Two of <em>Forward the Foundation</em></p>



<p class="noindent"><sup>2</sup> Takes place after Part Five of <em>Forward the Foundation</em> and is a retelling, in greater detail, of <em>Part I-The Psychohistorians</em> in <em>Foundation (1951)</em></p>



<p class="noindent"><sup>3</sup> Takes place after <em>Foundation and Chaos</em></p>



<p class="noindent"><sup>4</sup> Commence reading from <em>Part II-The Encyclopedists</em>. <em>Part I</em> was retold in greater detail <span>(with many parts copied word for word)</span> in <em>Foundation and Chaos</em>.</p>



<p class="noindent"><sup>5</sup> Self published novels distributed freely. <a href="https://ibmjob.dk/" target="_blank">Read more</a></p>



<p class="noindent"><sup>6</sup> Novel incomplete as at July 2021.</p>

ZodWallop · 09-20-2021, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

I liked the original Asimov, but not the post 1980s ones, or the post 1980s combining Robot and Foundation storyverses.

I agree. Just because Heinlein did it didn't mean Asimov should have

ZodWallop · 09-20-2021, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karellen

And this is the reading order I put together while reading (a quick copy and paste out of one of the novels I reformatted)...

I thought the Caliban trilogy was terrific. Honestly, I liked those better than Asimov's own books. I wish they would release those as ebooks.

I also enjoyed the Robot City books, but gave up on Robots and Aliens.

How were the Tiedemann and Reichert books? I didn't hear great things about Tiedemann, but I am still curious.

Karellen · 09-20-2021, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

How were the Tiedemann and Reichert books? I didn't hear great things about Tiedemann, but I am still curious.

The novels by Mickey Zucker Reichert were fantastic. They were a great start to the saga and I rated them 4 stars out of five. They were more about Susan Calvin gaining her medical degree and her relationship with her father and how she found employment in US Robotics. Robots are only a minor storyline in the first and second books.

I also rated Mark W. Tiedmanns books a 4 star. They were very enjoyable and kept a lively pace.

The Caliban trilogy by Roger MacBride Allen were also very enjoyable and I rated them 3 stars.

As a comparison, Foundations Fear by Gregory Benford I rated a 1 star. It was heavily padded out and storylines that didn't make sense or were too far off-topic to be part of the Foundation universe. Joan of Arc... really?? Intelligent cats, talking dogs. 60+ pages devoted to a visit to a zoo.

Most of Asimovs Robot books (Robot Dreams, Complete Robot, Positronic Man etc) I rated as a 1 star also.

09-20-2021, 03:05 AM	#1
Karellen Wizard Posts: 1,407 Karma: 7000000 Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Libra 2	Asimov's Foundation fans... I recently finished a 45 book reading journey encompassing Isaac Asimov's Robot, Galactic and Foundation Series (Asimov Universe). Honestly it was a very rocky ride and not totally enjoyable for me. But... the saving grace was when I discovered the Final Foundation Trilogy which beautifully tied up the loose ends and confused storylines while also making quite a few stunning revelations about the characters and the storylines. The author is self published and his books are available to download for free. He has completed the first two books - Foundation and Second Empire in 2013 and The Robots of the Interregnum in 2018. Untitled book 3 is still a WIP and a couple of years off. (I have corresponded with the author) His site can be found here... https://ibmjob.dk/

09-20-2021, 08:34 AM	#2
Dr. Drib Grand Sorcerer Posts: 45,095 Karma: 57222145 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Peru Device: Kindle: Oasis 3, Voyage WiFi; Kobo: Libra 2, Aura One	I thought the Asimov estate took these down, along with a cease and desist order. Do you have an update on this, and if it's still an issue? Last edited by Dr. Drib; 09-20-2021 at 08:38 AM.

09-20-2021, 05:34 PM	#12
Karellen Wizard Posts: 1,407 Karma: 7000000 Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Libra 2	And this is the reading order I put together while reading (a quick copy and paste out of one of the novels I reformatted)... PHP Code: <body style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size:0.75em;"> <h2>Reading Order</h2> <br /> <ol> <li>I, Robot: To Protect – Mickey Zucker Reichert</li> <li>I, Robot: To Obey – Mickey Zucker Reichert</li> <li>I, Robot: To Preserve – Mickey Zucker Reichert</li> <li>The Complete Robot <span style="font-size:0.8em">(re-release of <em>I, Robot</em> and <em>Rest of the Robots</em>)</span></li> <ol style="list-style-type: circle;"> <li>I, Robot – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Rest of the Robots, The – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Robot Visions – Isaac Asimov</li> </ol> <li>Robot Dreams – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Positronic Man, The – Isaac Asimov & Robert Silverberg</li> <li>Nemesis – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Mother Earth – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>The Gods Themselves – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>The End of Eternity – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Caves of Steel, The – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Naked Sun, The – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Robots of Dawn, The – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Mirage – Mark W. Tiedemann</li> <li>Chimer – Mark W. Tiedemann</li> <li>Aurora – Mark W. Tiedemann</li> <li>Have Robot, Will Travel – Alexander C. Irvine</li> <li>Robots & Empire – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Caliban – Roger MacBride Allen</li> <li>Inferno – Roger MacBride Allen</li> <li>Utopia – Roger MacBride Allen</li> <li>Stars, Like Dust, The – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Currents of Space, The – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Pebble in the Sky – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Prelude to Foundation – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Forward the Foundation – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Foundation’s Fear – Gregory Benford<sup>1</sup></li> <li>Foundation and Chaos – Greg Bear<sup>2</sup></li> <li>Foundation’s Triumph – David Brin<sup>3</sup></li> <li>Foundation – Isaac Asimov<sup>4</sup></li> <li>Foundation and Empire – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Second Foundation – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Foundation’s Edge – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Foundation and Earth – Isaac Asimov</li> <li>Psychohistorical Crisis – Donald Kingsbury</li> <li>Foundation and Second Empire – Jeffery Owen Brown<sup>5</sup></li> <li>The Robots of the Interregnum – Jeffery Owen Brown<sup>5</sup></li> <li>Book 3 Final Foundation – Jeffery Owen Brown<sup>5, 6</sup></li> </ol> <p class="noindent"><sup>1</sup> Takes place between Part One and Part Two of <em>Forward the Foundation</em></p> <p class="noindent"><sup>2</sup> Takes place after Part Five of <em>Forward the Foundation</em> and is a retelling, in greater detail, of <em>Part I-The Psychohistorians</em> in <em>Foundation (1951)</em></p> <p class="noindent"><sup>3</sup> Takes place after <em>Foundation and Chaos</em></p> <p class="noindent"><sup>4</sup> Commence reading from <em>Part II-The Encyclopedists</em>. <em>Part I</em> was retold in greater detail <span>(with many parts copied word for word)</span> in <em>Foundation and Chaos</em>.</p> <p class="noindent"><sup>5</sup> Self published novels distributed freely. <a href="https://ibmjob.dk/" target="_blank">Read more</a></p> <p class="noindent"><sup>6</sup> Novel incomplete as at July 2021.</p>

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09-20-2021, 08:58 AM	#3
Quoth Reading till the spring Posts: 12,529 Karma: 94058919 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	I liked the original Asimov, but not the post 1980s ones, or the post 1980s combining Robot and Foundation storyverses. This seems to be some sort of Fan-fiction or sequel fiction and not even Asimov. The legal position is only clear on works out of copyright, like additional Jane Austin or Sherlock Holmes, few of which are worth reading. Good contemporary writers usually only write additional titles in a Storyverse when paid to by an Estate or Publisher. Even then the results are variable. There are no shortage of SF titles that are well written.

09-20-2021, 09:04 AM	#4
Dr. Drib Grand Sorcerer Posts: 45,095 Karma: 57222145 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Peru Device: Kindle: Oasis 3, Voyage WiFi; Kobo: Libra 2, Aura One	Thanks, Quoth.

09-20-2021, 09:39 AM	#6
Pajamaman Wizard Posts: 2,839 Karma: 10700629 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Canada Device: Onyx Nova	I'm surprised this is a legal issue. The author is not charging money.

09-20-2021, 03:17 PM	#10
Pajamaman Wizard Posts: 2,839 Karma: 10700629 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Canada Device: Onyx Nova	In psychohitorical crisis the author changes the names. Could I have something written in an identical world with identical characters but change the names and superficial details of things

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