GPL violation?

rfog · 02-24-2008, 07:39 AM

Where is the source code for the Gen3? If it is supposed to run a Linux kernel, they need at least publish that modified source code.

What about PDF Viewer? And shell viewer? Are they GPL?

I understand that this is not an official Gen3 forum, but we need to know that.

I have version 1.0 firmware, but that firmware has a lot of bugs (powering off with book opened does not saves state, new fonts recognition problem, SD file system corruptions...)

HarryT · 02-24-2008, 07:52 AM

You'd need to ask Bookeen that directly. This is not, as you say, a Bookeen support forum but a place for CyBook users to talk to one another. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the GPL says that source code has to be made available on request, not necessarily "published"; have you asked Bookeen for it?

I don't experience any of the issues you mention, by the way. Powering off the machine with a book open remembers the state perfectly; no problems at all with fonts (provided one deletes the cache file); no SD problems. You sound to have been rather unfortunate in the issues that you've encountered! Have you tried using a different SD card? Perhaps that's where the root cause of your problems lie. People here have reported that certain SD cards do cause problems, while others work perfectly.

tompe · 02-24-2008, 12:06 PM

Bookeen have to state the GPL license somewhere since otherwise you cannot know that you can ask for the source code. And I do not think they do that.

OK, now I sent an email asking for the source code.

delphidb96 · 02-24-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfog

Where is the source code for the Gen3? If it is supposed to run a Linux kernel, they need at least publish that modified source code.

What about PDF Viewer? And shell viewer? Are they GPL?

I understand that this is not an official Gen3 forum, but we need to know that.

I have version 1.0 firmware, but that firmware has a lot of bugs (powering off with book opened does not saves state, new fonts recognition problem, SD file system corruptions...)

Go for it. Write to Bookeen and ask. Between you and tompe we hope to see results!

Personally, I'd love to get the sdk/source for the OS they use. I don't particularly need to see the source to their Boo Reader as that *IS* proprietary and they've been developing since long before the Gen3 - but to be able to develop other apps that run on the Cybook, yeah I'd like that.

Derek

Snuffi · 02-25-2008, 07:56 AM

I hope you're successful, I've seen other devices where the release of the GPLed part of the source code (provided they find a way to cleanly separate it, which they are required to anyway) has helped the dev team find and fix quite a few bugs (happened quite a few times that some time after an alternative firmware came out fixing a long open bug that a new official release also suddenly found a fix for the same bug :-) and also to implement new functions. One excellent example is a wireless router from Linksys which was so popular in the community for the vast number of uses via no less than 3 different alternative FWs (not counting the branches) that they must have earned a fortune with that model (two years after the initial release they were selling it still for pretty much the original price while there were newer routers with superior technical data which still couldn't compete with the amazing number of functions of the far older model).

And on the mention of the problems rfog is experiencing: I *always* switch off the Cybook with my book open and never had the problem that it didn't save (except for one time: I did a test to see how long the battery would last and didn't charge it for a month. When the battery indicator was at 30% and below I *sometimes* found that it hadn't saved the current position. Going back to the library before switching off allowed me to keep reading for 2-3 more days until the battery was completely spent. Once I had recharged it the "problem" was gone and as I usually connect it to the PC every now and then anyway I have never depleted the battery so much as to experience that behaviour again).

igorsk · 02-25-2008, 08:12 AM

In "technical specification" section the User Manual states:

Quote:

Operating System: Linux embedded version

Which means they HAVE to provide the sources used to compile the kernel and any GPL utilities used in Cybook.

delphidb96 · 02-25-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorsk

In "technical specification" section the User Manual states:

Which means they HAVE to provide the sources used to compile the kernel and any GPL utilities used in Cybook.

Yes, that IS true. However, "HAVE TO" and "HAVE DONE SO" are two different realities, don't you think? People can quote rules and even scream, shout and throw lawsuits, but until Bookeen gets to the "Have done so" state, there's really not much we can do.

I'm taking the view that Bookeen intends to comply, but just has been far too busy getting the features list current and the buglist under control.

Derek

tompe · 02-25-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delphidb96

I'm taking the view that Bookeen intends to comply, but just has been far too busy getting the features list current and the buglist under control.

That is really no excuse. I was so busy with other things so I could not remove the material I distributed which I did not have copyright to...

No response yet. I asked fot the firmware re-installation procedure at the same time to have when I need it.

dottedmag · 02-26-2008, 04:43 AM

You might want to submit GPL violation case to FSF Europe (www.fsfeurope.org). They are very active in such situations.

HarryT · 02-26-2008, 06:49 AM

Give them a chance! I think any court would rule that it's reasonable to give them, say, 30 days to supply you with the requested material. Screaming for blood because you don't receive an instant response is being a little unreasonable.

Prospect · 02-26-2008, 09:01 AM

If the Cybook contains GPL software or derivative works thereof (which I believe it does, since it has a Linux kernel) then several provisions of the GPL license have been violated by Bookeen:

1) The obligation to inform the end users that the devices contains GPL licensed software

2) The obligation to make available or to offer to make available the source code.

Even though I like my Cybook a lot, I am concerned that Bookeen seems to handle copyright issues so leniently. Time is not an argument in the same way that time is never an argument when it comes to paying at the grocery or speeding.

tompe · 02-26-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Give them a chance! I think any court would rule that it's reasonable to give them, say, 30 days to supply you with the requested material. Screaming for blood because you don't receive an instant response is being a little unreasonable.

History with other companies like Archos has shown that you will probably not get a response until you report them.

Why are you so forgiving in this instance of a criminal/illegal behaviour but not so forgiving on other?

JSWolf · 02-26-2008, 03:31 PM

They have some set period of time that they have to comply if you don't know what that is, then 30 days is a good time period to give them to comply before taking them to court.

Prospect · 02-26-2008, 05:06 PM

JSWolf,

The GPL license does not give a set period to comply. No distribution of GPLed software is to take place without the provisions of the license being complied with. A set period would not make sense since the information regarding the GPL should be distributed together with the software.

I would not be the one bringing the folks at Bookeen to the courts over this, I am just pointing out that it is anti-social behaviour that definitely does not help their reputation. It could potential damage them badly since they will not have any protection for their own copyright as long as they do not respect others.

delphidb96 · 02-28-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prospect

JSWolf,

The GPL license does not give a set period to comply. No distribution of GPLed software is to take place without the provisions of the license being complied with. A set period would not make sense since the information regarding the GPL should be distributed together with the software.

I would not be the one bringing the folks at Bookeen to the courts over this, I am just pointing out that it is anti-social behaviour that definitely does not help their reputation. It could potential damage them badly since they will not have any protection for their own copyright as long as they do not respect others.

Speaking of the GPL, the underlying OS is supplied by the hardware manufacturer. Now, obviously, Bookeen can't release said OS source code without that manufacturer's permission. In fact, it might be best to query the manufacturer directly.

No, I don't know who that manufacturer is, or I'd put in a request for the source code and SDK myself.

Derek

02-24-2008, 07:39 AM	#1
rfog Guru Posts: 695 Karma: 2383012 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Schiedam (The Netherlands) Device: Lots of eInk devices and iOS stuff	GPL violation? Where is the source code for the Gen3? If it is supposed to run a Linux kernel, they need at least publish that modified source code. What about PDF Viewer? And shell viewer? Are they GPL? I understand that this is not an official Gen3 forum, but we need to know that. I have version 1.0 firmware, but that firmware has a lot of bugs (powering off with book opened does not saves state, new fonts recognition problem, SD file system corruptions...)

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tompe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,452 Karma: 7185064 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Linköpng, Sweden Device: Kindle Voyage, Nexus 5, Kindle PW	Bookeen have to state the GPL license somewhere since otherwise you cannot know that you can ask for the source code. And I do not think they do that. OK, now I sent an email asking for the source code.

02-25-2008, 07:56 AM	#5
Snuffi Addict Posts: 245 Karma: 718 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Vienna Device: Pocketbook Pro 612, Bookeen Cybook Gen3	I hope you're successful, I've seen other devices where the release of the GPLed part of the source code (provided they find a way to cleanly separate it, which they are required to anyway) has helped the dev team find and fix quite a few bugs (happened quite a few times that some time after an alternative firmware came out fixing a long open bug that a new official release also suddenly found a fix for the same bug :-) and also to implement new functions. One excellent example is a wireless router from Linksys which was so popular in the community for the vast number of uses via no less than 3 different alternative FWs (not counting the branches) that they must have earned a fortune with that model (two years after the initial release they were selling it still for pretty much the original price while there were newer routers with superior technical data which still couldn't compete with the amazing number of functions of the far older model). And on the mention of the problems rfog is experiencing: I always switch off the Cybook with my book open and never had the problem that it didn't save (except for one time: I did a test to see how long the battery would last and didn't charge it for a month. When the battery indicator was at 30% and below I sometimes found that it hadn't saved the current position. Going back to the library before switching off allowed me to keep reading for 2-3 more days until the battery was completely spent. Once I had recharged it the "problem" was gone and as I usually connect it to the PC every now and then anyway I have never depleted the battery so much as to experience that behaviour again).

02-26-2008, 04:43 AM	#9
dottedmag OpenInkpot co-founder Posts: 410 Karma: 845 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle Oasis	You might want to submit GPL violation case to FSF Europe (www.fsfeurope.org). They are very active in such situations.

02-26-2008, 06:49 AM	#10
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Give them a chance! I think any court would rule that it's reasonable to give them, say, 30 days to supply you with the requested material. Screaming for blood because you don't receive an instant response is being a little unreasonable.

02-26-2008, 09:01 AM	#11
Prospect Other Posts: 143 Karma: 644 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norway Device: Cybook, Kindle	If the Cybook contains GPL software or derivative works thereof (which I believe it does, since it has a Linux kernel) then several provisions of the GPL license have been violated by Bookeen: 1) The obligation to inform the end users that the devices contains GPL licensed software 2) The obligation to make available or to offer to make available the source code. Even though I like my Cybook a lot, I am concerned that Bookeen seems to handle copyright issues so leniently. Time is not an argument in the same way that time is never an argument when it comes to paying at the grocery or speeding.

02-26-2008, 03:31 PM	#13
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 76,370 Karma: 136466962 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	They have some set period of time that they have to comply if you don't know what that is, then 30 days is a good time period to give them to comply before taking them to court.

02-26-2008, 05:06 PM	#14
Prospect Other Posts: 143 Karma: 644 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norway Device: Cybook, Kindle	JSWolf, The GPL license does not give a set period to comply. No distribution of GPLed software is to take place without the provisions of the license being complied with. A set period would not make sense since the information regarding the GPL should be distributed together with the software. I would not be the one bringing the folks at Bookeen to the courts over this, I am just pointing out that it is anti-social behaviour that definitely does not help their reputation. It could potential damage them badly since they will not have any protection for their own copyright as long as they do not respect others.

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