Liaden fans, help me out

AnemicOak · 05-12-2011, 01:15 AM

OK, so I keep hearing about Liaden and how it's great and all that. Sounds like my cup of tea, but what is the preferred reading order?

Some places say start with 'Agent of Change, some say 'Local Custom' and Webscription lists 'Conflict of Honors' first in the omnibus that contains these titles. I'm a bit confused.

Also is there a reading order list somewhere that covers everything? The Webscription listings for the various collections aren't very helpful.

EDIT: A reading order flow chart from Baen (thanks to gbm for the tip)...
http://www.baen.com//images/series/liaden.png

Thanks.

Xanthe · 05-12-2011, 03:04 AM

My preferred reading order would be:

Local Custom (Er'Thom & Anne's story - Shan as a child)
Scout's Progress (Daav & Aelliana's story)

Those two give you the story of the parents of the major characters in the rest of the books. They also set up the nuances of Liaden society and how it differs from Terran, and introduces you to Clan Korval.

I would next read the following, because it introduces the Department of Interior story arc:

Conflict of Honors (Shan's reintroduction, Priscilla's introduction)

Agent of Change (introduction of Val Con (Daav's son) and Miri Robertson - introduces the story arc of the Deptartment of the Interior)

Carpe Diem (continues the story arc of Daav, Miri, DOI, Shan, Priscilla)

Plan B (continues the story arc, reunites all the main characters in one location)

I Dare (focuses on the parallel story of Pat Rin, cousin to both Shan and Daav, and the attempts of the DOI to suborn him and what he does about it - and takes the whole crew back to Liad to a showdown against the DOI)

I would then recommend Crystal Soldier and Crystal Dragon (in that order) because it tells the backstory of Jela and Cantra not to mention Clan Erob and The Tree. These two books fill in the historical gaps and provide "a-ha" moments. You could probably read them first, but I like to place them after the main story arc because there are constant references to Jela and Cantra in the other books so you already have a sense of their importance. The Crystal books humanize them and give you facts about the Liadens, Terrans, and Yxtrang that connect all the dots that you've come to think might be connected.

Balance of Trade is a stand-alone, one that takes place after the time of the Crystal books but before Local Custom. It doesn't focus on Clan Korval at all. But you will recognize bits and pieces of things (and possibly people) that have carried through time from the Crystal books. I read it before the Crystal books (because they hadn't been published yet) and when I re-read it after them, there were a lot of "hmm..." moments for me when I recognized what certain things were.

Mouse and Dragon can be read after Scout's Progress if you like, because it continues the story of Daav and Aelianna, but I prefer it as a stand-alone after the main story arc.

Fledgling and Saltation start a new story arc involving Theo Waitley, introduced at the end of I Dare.

Check out Liaden Universe on Wiki, and http://www.korval.com

These books are definitely keepers for me, and I've got them in hardcover whenever I can. I re-read the entire series every year or so. There are also two books called the Liaden Universe Companion volumes (I & II) which contain the short stories (chap books) that the authors publish yearly set in the Liaden Universe which provides further backstory and tells the tales that get a brief reference in the novels themselves. (If you enjoy the series, I'd get the available LU Companion Vol. II now while it is both available and affordable - Vol. I is out-of-print and costs in the hundreds now.)

AnemicOak · 05-12-2011, 11:06 AM

Thanks Xanthe

Xanthe · 05-12-2011, 01:38 PM

No problem - always like to pimp this series.

jgaiser · 05-12-2011, 02:19 PM

Ok... I've got a couple of the novels from monthly webscriptions at Baen and from some of the reviews I've read on the web, they appear to be a bit of 'Romance in Space' books.

Now I know I've said I wasn't much of a Romance novel sort of guy, but I did enjoy the first two novels in the Vorkosigan Saga enough to reread and enjoy. What's the level of romance in the Liaden series?

Xanthe · 05-12-2011, 10:45 PM

Been a long time since I read those first two Vorkosigan Saga books, but I don't remember them as being very overtly sexual or gushingly romantic.

Both Lee & Miller usually list Georgette Heyer as one of their literary idols. Heyer is considered the successor to Jane Austen by people who like Regency romances. There was no sex in Heyer's books - as readers we were lucky if the protagonists at least kissed by the end of the book. But it didn't matter because it wasn't necessary to the story because it was all a matter of the exquisite build-up of the romantic/erotic tension between the characters - everything implied not baldly displayed. And frankly, that kiss at the end of the book was better than most authors 16-page explicit descriptions of the sexual encounters between their characters.

The romance in the Liaden series is like that - it's a matter of wordplay and unspoken desires. Anyone who's read Heyer and reads the Liaden books can spot the influence. You can see the attraction developing between the characters as a subplot to the main story. Sexual activity is usually just implied - she goes off with her, he asks her to spend the night with him, they spend so much time in one another's company that they no longer want to be anywhere else, etc. There's a lot of "romance" in the sense that most of the characters pair up with someone as the story arc progresses, but there's not "romance" in the sense that it distracts from the storyline. When it appears it's integral to the plot, rounding out the characters, but not derailing the story.

This isn't a series of books that would revoke one's "man creds" by any means

. I think that reviewers have a hard time standing back from the series because the universe that Lee & Miller just sucks you in and when you stop reading one of the books you virtually resurface into the real world. It has so many elements to it that you can't really stick one label to it, so I think the easiest default for some reviewers is romantic scifi. Labeling the books as "romance in space" does them a great disservice - I've read true RIS books and the Liaden series is nothing like that.

For me, the romance is more on my side as a reader; I love those characters. (Just wait until you meet the Edger, Sheather and the rest of the Clutch!)

jgaiser · 05-13-2011, 12:01 AM

The first two Vorkosigan novels (Shards of Honor and Barrayar) were definitely 'Romance in Space'. Not overtly sexual, but on first reading - as a long time hard SF reader - took some getting used to. That said, I did end up enjoying both novels enough to reread and enjoy the second time.

I'll take a look at the Liaden series. Thanks...

Joykins · 05-13-2011, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgaiser

The first two Vorkosigan novels (Shards of Honor and Barrayar) were definitely 'Romance in Space'. Not overtly sexual, but on first reading - as a long time hard SF reader - took some getting used to. That said, I did end up enjoying both novels enough to reread and enjoy the second time.

I'll take a look at the Liaden series. Thanks...

The amount of romance in the Liaden books varies--I'd say that _Local Custom_ is probably the most romance-like of them all, in fact I would call it a romance in space. The _Agent of Change_ and _Crystal Soldier_ sequences incorporate a romantic plotline but I wouldn't call any of it romance; there is even less romance in the Theo Waitley books. The rest seem somewhere in between.

AnemicOak · 05-14-2011, 07:57 PM

A little over half way through 'Local Custom' and find I'm liking it quite a bit.

A warning to folks new to these books and thinking about giving them a try. I bought 'Local Custom' singly for $5 to get my feet wet, but it turns out you can buy 'The Dragon Variation' omnibus for $1 more and get the first three books. There's also another omnibus called 'The Agent Gambit' that has books 4 & 5 (going off Xanthe's reading order) and yet another omnibus called 'Korval's Game' with books 6 & 7. It would be nice if the Webscription site was a little clearer on that. Guess I should have known better since they do the same thing with some of the Vorkosigan books (omnibus & single's both sold).

CRussel · 05-19-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthe

These books are definitely keepers for me, and I've got them in hardcover whenever I can. I re-read the entire series every year or so. There are also two books called the Liaden Universe Companion volumes (I & II) which contain the short stories (chap books) that the authors publish yearly set in the Liaden Universe which provides further backstory and tells the tales that get a brief reference in the novels themselves. (If you enjoy the series, I'd get the available LU Companion Vol. II now while it is both available and affordable - Vol. I is out-of-print and costs in the hundreds now.)

The two Liaden Universe Companion books are available as eBooks from Baen. Individually, or the two together as "Liaden Universe Big Bang" for $10. Well worth the $$.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

A warning to folks new to these books and thinking about giving them a try. I bought 'Local Custom' singly for $5 to get my feet wet, but it turns out you can buy 'The Dragon Variation' omnibus for $1 more and get the first three books. There's also another omnibus called 'The Agent Gambit' that has books 4 & 5 (going off Xanthe's reading order) and yet another omnibus called 'Korval's Game' with books 6 & 7. It would be nice if the Webscription site was a little clearer on that. Guess I should have known better since they do the same thing with some of the Vorkosigan books (omnibus & single's both sold).

The Crystal Variation (Crystal Soldier, Crystal Dragon, and Balance of Trade) will be out from Baen in September as another omnibus edition. (Free WebScription thread going on in Freebies forum right now!)

Xanthe · 05-21-2011, 08:00 AM

Ah, I didn't know that they issued the companion volumes in ebook format - that's great! they are definitely worth buying, and I'm glad that there's a way to get Vol. I.

Though I'm wondering what I can get for my signed hardcover edition of Vol. I....

CRussel · 05-21-2011, 02:39 PM

They've just finished putting up all the chapbooks as individual books on Amazon and an ePub site (B&N?), all DRM free. If you've missed any, might want to go grab them. Some are one's I've never seen.

AnemicOak · 05-21-2011, 03:49 PM

For anyone thinking about reading this series here are links for everything available (except for a couple of non-cannon shorts)...

Note: I linked to omnibus editions where available (or available soon), but all of the books are available individually too if for some reason you want to get them that way.

The Dragon Variation
(contains; Local Custom, Scout's Progress & Conflict of Honors)
http://www.webscription.net/p-1188-t...variation.aspx

The Agent Gambit
(contains; Agent of Change and Carpe Diem)
http://www.webscription.net/p-1265-t...nt-gambit.aspx

Korval's Game
(contains; Plan B and I Dare)
http://www.webscription.net/p-1328-korvals-game.aspx

The Crystal Variation [released 9/1/2011]
(contains; Crystal Soldier, Crystal Dragon and Balance of Trade)
http://www.webscription.net/p-1448-t...variation.aspx

Mouse and Dragon
http://www.webscription.net/p-1187-m...nd-dragon.aspx

Fledgling
http://www.webscription.net/p-1026-fledgling.aspx

Saltation
http://www.webscription.net/p-1164-saltation.aspx

Ghost Ship [released 8/1/2011, eArc available now]
http://www.webscription.net/p-1413-ghost-ship.aspx
http://www.webscription.net/p-1418-ghost-ship-arc.aspx [eArc]

-----------------------

Chapbooks (there are currently 17 chapbooks)...

Liaden Universe® Big Bang
(contains; Liaden Unibus I and Liaden Unibus II)
This grouping is made up of chapbooks 1-12
http://www.webscription.net/p-698-li...-big-bang.aspx

Dragon Tide [chapbook 13]
from Webscription along with The Tomorrow Log
http://www.webscription.net/p-1061-t...agon-tide.aspx
or by itself from Amazon or B&N (DRM free)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...blioclectic-20
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Dra...RI=dragon+tide

Eidolon [chapbook 14]
available from Amazon or B&N (DRM free)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...blioclectic-20
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Eid...1&USRI=eidolon

Misfits [chapbook 15]
available from Amazon or B&N (DRM free)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...blioclectic-20
also available in Jim Baen's Universe Vol.2 Number 4
http://www.webscription.net/p-747-ji...l-2-num-4.aspx
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Mis...1&USRI=misfits

Halfling Moon [chapbook 16]
available from Amazon or B&N (DRM free)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...blioclectic-20
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Hal...=halfling+moon

Skyblaze [chapbook 17]
available from Amazon or B&N (DRM free)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...blioclectic-20
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Sky...&USRI=skyblaze

I'm up to Carpe Diem so far and loving the series.

Xanthe · 05-21-2011, 05:35 PM

Thanks for all those links, AnemicOak!

I think we can safely say that we've gotten you hooked?

CRussel · 05-21-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthe

Thanks for all those links, AnemicOak!

I think we can safely say that we've gotten you hooked?

Yup, I think we've go AnemicOak thoroughly hooked.

There are certainly worse kinds of eCrack.<G>

05-12-2011, 01:15 AM	#1
AnemicOak Bookaholic Posts: 14,391 Karma: 54969924 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Minnesota Device: iPad Mini 4, AuraHD, iPhone XR +	Liaden fans, help me out OK, so I keep hearing about Liaden and how it's great and all that. Sounds like my cup of tea, but what is the preferred reading order? Some places say start with 'Agent of Change, some say 'Local Custom' and Webscription lists 'Conflict of Honors' first in the omnibus that contains these titles. I'm a bit confused. Also is there a reading order list somewhere that covers everything? The Webscription listings for the various collections aren't very helpful. EDIT: A reading order flow chart from Baen (thanks to gbm for the tip)... http://www.baen.com//images/series/liaden.png Thanks. Last edited by AnemicOak; 10-05-2016 at 03:26 PM.

05-12-2011, 03:04 AM	#2
Xanthe Plan B Is Now In Force Posts: 1,894 Karma: 8086979 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Surebleak Device: Aluratek,Sony 350/T1,Pandigital,eBM 911,Nook HD/HD+,Fire HDX 7/8.9,PW2	My preferred reading order would be: Local Custom (Er'Thom & Anne's story - Shan as a child) Scout's Progress (Daav & Aelliana's story) Those two give you the story of the parents of the major characters in the rest of the books. They also set up the nuances of Liaden society and how it differs from Terran, and introduces you to Clan Korval. I would next read the following, because it introduces the Department of Interior story arc: Conflict of Honors (Shan's reintroduction, Priscilla's introduction) Agent of Change (introduction of Val Con (Daav's son) and Miri Robertson - introduces the story arc of the Deptartment of the Interior) Carpe Diem (continues the story arc of Daav, Miri, DOI, Shan, Priscilla) Plan B (continues the story arc, reunites all the main characters in one location) I Dare (focuses on the parallel story of Pat Rin, cousin to both Shan and Daav, and the attempts of the DOI to suborn him and what he does about it - and takes the whole crew back to Liad to a showdown against the DOI) I would then recommend Crystal Soldier and Crystal Dragon (in that order) because it tells the backstory of Jela and Cantra not to mention Clan Erob and The Tree. These two books fill in the historical gaps and provide "a-ha" moments. You could probably read them first, but I like to place them after the main story arc because there are constant references to Jela and Cantra in the other books so you already have a sense of their importance. The Crystal books humanize them and give you facts about the Liadens, Terrans, and Yxtrang that connect all the dots that you've come to think might be connected. Balance of Trade is a stand-alone, one that takes place after the time of the Crystal books but before Local Custom. It doesn't focus on Clan Korval at all. But you will recognize bits and pieces of things (and possibly people) that have carried through time from the Crystal books. I read it before the Crystal books (because they hadn't been published yet) and when I re-read it after them, there were a lot of "hmm..." moments for me when I recognized what certain things were. Mouse and Dragon can be read after Scout's Progress if you like, because it continues the story of Daav and Aelianna, but I prefer it as a stand-alone after the main story arc. Fledgling and Saltation start a new story arc involving Theo Waitley, introduced at the end of I Dare. Check out Liaden Universe on Wiki, and http://www.korval.com These books are definitely keepers for me, and I've got them in hardcover whenever I can. I re-read the entire series every year or so. There are also two books called the Liaden Universe Companion volumes (I & II) which contain the short stories (chap books) that the authors publish yearly set in the Liaden Universe which provides further backstory and tells the tales that get a brief reference in the novels themselves. (If you enjoy the series, I'd get the available LU Companion Vol. II now while it is both available and affordable - Vol. I is out-of-print and costs in the hundreds now.) Last edited by Xanthe; 05-12-2011 at 03:15 AM.

05-12-2011, 10:45 PM	#6
Xanthe Plan B Is Now In Force Posts: 1,894 Karma: 8086979 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Surebleak Device: Aluratek,Sony 350/T1,Pandigital,eBM 911,Nook HD/HD+,Fire HDX 7/8.9,PW2	Been a long time since I read those first two Vorkosigan Saga books, but I don't remember them as being very overtly sexual or gushingly romantic. Both Lee & Miller usually list Georgette Heyer as one of their literary idols. Heyer is considered the successor to Jane Austen by people who like Regency romances. There was no sex in Heyer's books - as readers we were lucky if the protagonists at least kissed by the end of the book. But it didn't matter because it wasn't necessary to the story because it was all a matter of the exquisite build-up of the romantic/erotic tension between the characters - everything implied not baldly displayed. And frankly, that kiss at the end of the book was better than most authors 16-page explicit descriptions of the sexual encounters between their characters. The romance in the Liaden series is like that - it's a matter of wordplay and unspoken desires. Anyone who's read Heyer and reads the Liaden books can spot the influence. You can see the attraction developing between the characters as a subplot to the main story. Sexual activity is usually just implied - she goes off with her, he asks her to spend the night with him, they spend so much time in one another's company that they no longer want to be anywhere else, etc. There's a lot of "romance" in the sense that most of the characters pair up with someone as the story arc progresses, but there's not "romance" in the sense that it distracts from the storyline. When it appears it's integral to the plot, rounding out the characters, but not derailing the story. This isn't a series of books that would revoke one's "man creds" by any means . I think that reviewers have a hard time standing back from the series because the universe that Lee & Miller just sucks you in and when you stop reading one of the books you virtually resurface into the real world. It has so many elements to it that you can't really stick one label to it, so I think the easiest default for some reviewers is romantic scifi. Labeling the books as "romance in space" does them a great disservice - I've read true RIS books and the Liaden series is nothing like that. For me, the romance is more on my side as a reader; I love those characters. (Just wait until you meet the Edger, Sheather and the rest of the Clutch!) Last edited by Xanthe; 05-12-2011 at 10:47 PM.

05-14-2011, 07:57 PM	#9
AnemicOak Bookaholic Posts: 14,391 Karma: 54969924 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Minnesota Device: iPad Mini 4, AuraHD, iPhone XR +	A little over half way through 'Local Custom' and find I'm liking it quite a bit. A warning to folks new to these books and thinking about giving them a try. I bought 'Local Custom' singly for $5 to get my feet wet, but it turns out you can buy 'The Dragon Variation' omnibus for $1 more and get the first three books. There's also another omnibus called 'The Agent Gambit' that has books 4 & 5 (going off Xanthe's reading order) and yet another omnibus called 'Korval's Game' with books 6 & 7. It would be nice if the Webscription site was a little clearer on that. Guess I should have known better since they do the same thing with some of the Vorkosigan books (omnibus & single's both sold). Last edited by AnemicOak; 05-14-2011 at 08:15 PM.

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05-12-2011, 11:06 AM	#3
AnemicOak Bookaholic Posts: 14,391 Karma: 54969924 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Minnesota Device: iPad Mini 4, AuraHD, iPhone XR +	Thanks Xanthe

05-12-2011, 01:38 PM	#4
Xanthe Plan B Is Now In Force Posts: 1,894 Karma: 8086979 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Surebleak Device: Aluratek,Sony 350/T1,Pandigital,eBM 911,Nook HD/HD+,Fire HDX 7/8.9,PW2	No problem - always like to pimp this series.

05-12-2011, 02:19 PM	#5
jgaiser Omnivorous Posts: 3,281 Karma: 27978909 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rural NW Oregon Device: Kindle Voyage, Kindle Fire HD, Kindle 3, KPW1	Ok... I've got a couple of the novels from monthly webscriptions at Baen and from some of the reviews I've read on the web, they appear to be a bit of 'Romance in Space' books. Now I know I've said I wasn't much of a Romance novel sort of guy, but I did enjoy the first two novels in the Vorkosigan Saga enough to reread and enjoy. What's the level of romance in the Liaden series?

05-13-2011, 12:01 AM	#7
jgaiser Omnivorous Posts: 3,281 Karma: 27978909 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rural NW Oregon Device: Kindle Voyage, Kindle Fire HD, Kindle 3, KPW1	The first two Vorkosigan novels (Shards of Honor and Barrayar) were definitely 'Romance in Space'. Not overtly sexual, but on first reading - as a long time hard SF reader - took some getting used to. That said, I did end up enjoying both novels enough to reread and enjoy the second time. I'll take a look at the Liaden series. Thanks...

05-21-2011, 08:00 AM	#11
Xanthe Plan B Is Now In Force Posts: 1,894 Karma: 8086979 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Surebleak Device: Aluratek,Sony 350/T1,Pandigital,eBM 911,Nook HD/HD+,Fire HDX 7/8.9,PW2	Ah, I didn't know that they issued the companion volumes in ebook format - that's great! they are definitely worth buying, and I'm glad that there's a way to get Vol. I. Though I'm wondering what I can get for my signed hardcover edition of Vol. I....

05-21-2011, 02:39 PM	#12
CRussel (he/him/his) Posts: 12,234 Karma: 79742714 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sunshine Coast, BC Device: Oasis (Gen3),Paperwhite (Gen10), Voyage, Paperwhite(orig), Fire HD 8	They've just finished putting up all the chapbooks as individual books on Amazon and an ePub site (B&N?), all DRM free. If you've missed any, might want to go grab them. Some are one's I've never seen.

05-21-2011, 03:49 PM	#13
AnemicOak Bookaholic Posts: 14,391 Karma: 54969924 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Minnesota Device: iPad Mini 4, AuraHD, iPhone XR +	For anyone thinking about reading this series here are links for everything available (except for a couple of non-cannon shorts)... Note: I linked to omnibus editions where available (or available soon), but all of the books are available individually too if for some reason you want to get them that way. The Dragon Variation (contains; Local Custom, Scout's Progress & Conflict of Honors) http://www.webscription.net/p-1188-t...variation.aspx The Agent Gambit (contains; Agent of Change and Carpe Diem) http://www.webscription.net/p-1265-t...nt-gambit.aspx Korval's Game (contains; Plan B and I Dare) http://www.webscription.net/p-1328-korvals-game.aspx The Crystal Variation [released 9/1/2011] (contains; Crystal Soldier, Crystal Dragon and Balance of Trade) http://www.webscription.net/p-1448-t...variation.aspx Mouse and Dragon http://www.webscription.net/p-1187-m...nd-dragon.aspx Fledgling http://www.webscription.net/p-1026-fledgling.aspx Saltation http://www.webscription.net/p-1164-saltation.aspx Ghost Ship [released 8/1/2011, eArc available now] http://www.webscription.net/p-1413-ghost-ship.aspx http://www.webscription.net/p-1418-ghost-ship-arc.aspx [eArc] ----------------------- Chapbooks (there are currently 17 chapbooks)... Liaden Universe® Big Bang (contains; Liaden Unibus I and Liaden Unibus II) This grouping is made up of chapbooks 1-12 http://www.webscription.net/p-698-li...-big-bang.aspx Dragon Tide [chapbook 13] from Webscription along with The Tomorrow Log http://www.webscription.net/p-1061-t...agon-tide.aspx or by itself from Amazon or B&N (DRM free) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...blioclectic-20 http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Dra...RI=dragon+tide Eidolon [chapbook 14] available from Amazon or B&N (DRM free) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...blioclectic-20 http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Eid...1&USRI=eidolon Misfits [chapbook 15] available from Amazon or B&N (DRM free) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...blioclectic-20 also available in Jim Baen's Universe Vol.2 Number 4 http://www.webscription.net/p-747-ji...l-2-num-4.aspx http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Mis...1&USRI=misfits Halfling Moon [chapbook 16] available from Amazon or B&N (DRM free) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...blioclectic-20 http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Hal...=halfling+moon Skyblaze [chapbook 17] available from Amazon or B&N (DRM free) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...blioclectic-20 http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Sky...&USRI=skyblaze I'm up to Carpe Diem so far and loving the series.

05-21-2011, 05:35 PM	#14
Xanthe Plan B Is Now In Force Posts: 1,894 Karma: 8086979 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Surebleak Device: Aluratek,Sony 350/T1,Pandigital,eBM 911,Nook HD/HD+,Fire HDX 7/8.9,PW2	Thanks for all those links, AnemicOak! I think we can safely say that we've gotten you hooked?

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