Mac Mini and iPod Shuffle; iLife '05, iWork

Chaos · 01-11-2005, 10:46 PM

Yes, at Macworld Expo today Apple unveiled some new stuff...

Hardware:
Mac Mini - a sub-500 (American) Mac, with no display. Looks interesting. The hardware is a small step above most of the iBooks/PowerBooks. And the price! Can very reasonably compete with PCs of that price. (Edited out part about lack of DVD burner - it is available as an option.)

iPod Shuffle - a flash based iPod, with no display, and either 512MB or 1GB of space. Yes, no display... They're marketing it as basically meant to play songs randomly. I believe there's also an option to play through albums in some sort of sequence... $99 for 512MB, $149 for 1GB. American prices, again. And it's TINY!

Software included iLife '05 and iWork. iWork is a (small - for now) office suite with Keynote 2 and Pages (a new word processor). No, no spreadsheet for now... Maybe next year.

I believe there were a few other things announced, but those four are the most talked about/most hyped.

Zire · 01-11-2005, 11:56 PM

My take on MacWorld 2005

Hey All,

Just finished watching the keynote and I have to say bravo! I've been needing a new mac (I think but my wife doesn't ). The imac mini is just seriously cool...I'm drooling as I write this. It has so many possibilities. Think about this scenario you have a monitor, keyboard, and mouse set up at work, at home and at pretty much anywhere anyone has a computer to be frank. You carry your imac mini in your backpack and use your mac from pretty much anywhere there is another computer set up. Disconnect the cables and plug them into your imac mini and there you go. I'm loving it! The price and what's included is awesome $499 for the imac mini which has a cdrw drive and a dvd player, 40 gigs of hd space, a fast processor, 256mb of memory, osx, the new version of ilife and did I say this before...the freaking price. Damn I want one. When steve pulled it out and showed us how small it was my jaw dropped. I was like holy s%it.

When Steve showed us the graphs of market share regarding online music stores and sales for the ipod I was blown away.

I have mixed feelings about the ipod shuffle. I mean its cool for people who do not have an ipod or infact a palm. I mean we're kind of spoiled with palm and pocket pc's we have a kind of ipod already with a memory card and a music player. I guess the integration with itunes is what is the selling point. The ipod shuffle has an auto fill option through itunes which allows you to set itunes to fill up the ipod shuffle depending on certain parameters. We could do that with our palm/pocket pc but it requires a bit of dragging and dropping. The ipod shuffle functions as a flash drive as well. We as palm/pocket pc users are spoiled in this sense as well. We can use our palm/pocket pc as an external flash drive on any computer using add on programs on our palm/pocket pc's (is this true for pocket pc's?). The ipod shuffle is cool for those users who can't afford an ipod, don't have a palm/pocket pc and are new at the whole mp3 player thing.

A whole new program caught my eye as well called pages. Pages is the new word processor for mac that has a bucket load of functionality and integration with the whole ilife application set. I was impressed by Steve's presentation on it and the demonstration that one of his developers did.

I was also kind of impressed with the dashbar and all of the widgets that you can have open at the same time in the background and switch to them to check on them whenever you have a minute without stopping you from getting your work done (long sentence I know).

All in all the new product line and the future of mac integration is promising. I was impressed by this macworld.

PS Did you notice Steve saying boom! and Mere Mortals alot? LOL

TadW · 01-12-2005, 04:39 AM

I don't know about all this. Is Apple shifting to the value market? Or even more frightening: is it becoming a consumer electronics player?

Value market: In the past, Apple cultivated an elitist Mac attitude and pushed it to new heights. How does a low-cost Mac Mini fit into that? Can we expect to find it soon in a Wal-Mart store? I wonder about the effect this has on all those Mac users who considered themselves "cool" because of their high-end machines.

Consumer electronics: Is it just me or are most of the latest news and rumors around Apple based on consumer electronics? iPod, iPod Mini, iPod Flash - now the iPod Shuffle, iPod Phone (?) - what about some new breathtaking developments in the computer sector, Steve?

We'll see what happens. Let's hope Apple is not making a huge strategic mistake here!

Zire · 01-12-2005, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadW

I don't know about all this. Is Apple shifting to the value market? Or even more frightening: is it becoming a consumer electronics player?

Value market: In the past, Apple cultivated an elitist Mac attitude and pushed it to new heights. How does a low-cost Mac Mini fit into that? Can we expect to find it soon in a Wal-Mart store? I wonder about the effect this has on all those Mac users who considered themselves "cool" because of their high-end machines.

Consumer electronics: Is it just me or are most of the latest news and rumors around Apple based on consumer electronics? iPod, iPod Mini, iPod Flash - now the iPod Shuffle, iPod Phone (?) - what about some new breathtaking developments in the computer sector, Steve?

We'll see what happens. Let's hope Apple is not making a huge strategic mistake here!

Hey,

Apple has been decreasing the prices on computers for awhile. They started this with the original imac. When the imac dv and slot loading imacs came out in 2000 I bought one because for me it was cheap compared to the other macs that were out. Then the emacs came out which were a great success. I think that the move into the imac mini is a good one. If you go to the apple site and look at the specs, Steve didn't skimp on anything. He made it affortable by not including a mouse, keyboard or monitor with the computer. If I didn't have two computers already I would buy an imac mini in a flash. I have access to usb keyboards and mice at my job which I can pick up for free. The imac mini also works with any monitor from old crt to new lcd and you can get a cheap monitor for like $99 and an lcd for like $200. We may just see an imac mini being sold in walmart or kmart but that would be too funny. I think steve is making a good move. He has been right so far (in my opinion).

Apple is trying to broaden their market share in different fields. They're working with sony to integrate the new sony hd cameras with apple movie editing products. They're competing with microsoft with their new iwork application set. And most importantly going after the rest of the mp3 market with a flash based ipod that has more memory and is cheaper then alot of flash based mp3 players. Okay I'm rambling just my opinion here.

Gatton · 01-12-2005, 10:10 AM

I'm a hybrid user myself. I have a mac and a home built pc. Apple's machines are considered expensive by some but especially by the do it yourself-ers since we are used to building "Frankenboxes" and reusing parts. It's not a fair comparison of course but there it is. I love that the iMac mini is affordable and would like to have one.

Having said that I hope it doesn't show up in Walmart. That's not being snobbish. There are two Walmarts near my house and I shop there regularly. It's the cheapest place to go to get your essentials. But Apple just can't compete on the cheap. Dell and eMachines would kill them. They are the kings of low cost beige boxes.

But is Apple really trying to compete with them? Apple is still very much into their "Digital Hub" strategy and this machine fits very nicely into that role. I think it's more for the folks that buy an iPod (and there's tons of them) and then think "Hey this is cool...what else does Apple make." Before yesterday they might have suffered a little sticker shock but not now. Heck the eMac was already a good deal at $799 and this is basically a barebones version of that and lots smaller.

Gatton · 01-12-2005, 10:12 AM

Sorry to post again so soon but does anyone know when the keynote video is going to be available? Last I heard was 9pm Eastern US time last night but I check this morning and it's still not there. Would love to watch and see the crowd reaction to the new hardware. Also I wanted to watch the demos of iWork etc.

Zire · 01-12-2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatton

Sorry to post again so soon but does anyone know when the keynote video is going to be available? Last I heard was 9pm Eastern US time last night but I check this morning and it's still not there. Would love to watch and see the crowd reaction to the new hardware. Also I wanted to watch the demos of iWork etc.

The apple site has it at http://stream.apple.akadns.net/ . Saw it last night and I was blown away. Enjoy

Chaos · 01-12-2005, 08:18 PM

Yes, the Macs-are-alot-more-expensive myth is even less true now. $500 for that machine is reasonable. Most people wouldn't need much more, except maybe a bump up in the RAM (the Mac Mini can take up to 1GB - 512MB should be enough in a Mac for most people though - my PowerBook usually uses about 400MB RAM, out of 1.25GB doing webbrowsing, light gaming, coding...).

The 40 or 80Gb disk is very reasonable. On my 80GB PowerBook drive, I've still got 57GB free. So OS X is pretty good on disk space too.

The 1.25/1.42 Ghz G4 is very reasonable too. On a 1Ghz G4 Powerbook, I've got plenty of power to do the things I mentioned before (webbrowsing, light gaming, etc.).

It's pretty much a Powerbook in a different form factor.

And I was mistaken in the original post. The DVD burning SuperDrive is available as an option.

Brian · 01-12-2005, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatton

I think it's more for the folks that buy an iPod (and there's tons of them) and then think "Hey this is cool...what else does Apple make." Before yesterday they might have suffered a little sticker shock but not now. Heck the eMac was already a good deal at $799 and this is basically a barebones version of that and lots smaller.

You hit the nail right on the head. Apple is looking to expand and take advantage of the iPod Halo Effect (read some of those letters and tell me that doesn't sound familiar). I am a Windows & Linux user who will be joining the switchers by buying a Mac Mini once Tiger is released.

(Slightly OT) I'm getting a bit fed up by wasting a significant amount of my time patching, troubleshooting, and keeping my XP box secure and free of spyware/adware/viruses. I'm also getting a bit tired of becoming "unoffical tech support" for less tech-savvy co-workers, friends and family members who aren't as tech-savvy and have Windows PCs. I get approached several times per week for advice on how to remove spyware/adware, etc. I'm always willing to help (I hand out mini-CDs with Adaware, Spybot, Firefox, links to online AV scanning tools and links/instructions on securing Windows), but I can't help but think that Microsoft is frustrating and alienating the average Windows user due to these issues. Most of the Mac users I know are Apple evangelists and are happy with their Macs because they don't have to worry about these issues as much and OS X just works. Oh yeah, the industrial design is stunning too

.

Brian

Zire · 01-12-2005, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballistic

You hit the nail right on the head. Apple is looking to expand and take advantage of the iPod Halo Effect (read some of those letters and tell me that doesn't sound familiar). I am a Windows & Linux user who will be joining the switchers by buying a Mac Mini once Tiger is released.

(Slightly OT) I'm getting a bit fed up by wasting a significant amount of my time patching, troubleshooting, and keeping my XP box secure and free of spyware/adware/viruses. I'm also getting a bit tired of becoming "unoffical tech support" for less tech-savvy co-workers, friends and family members who aren't as tech-savvy and have Windows PCs. I get approached several times per week for advice on how to remove spyware/adware, etc. I'm always willing to help (I hand out mini-CDs with Adaware, Spybot, Firefox, links to online AV scanning tools and links/instructions on securing Windows), but I can't help but think that Microsoft is frustrating and alienating the average Windows user due to these issues. Most of the Mac users I know are Apple evangelists and are happy with their Macs because they don't have to worry about these issues as much and OS X just works. Oh yeah, the industrial design is stunning too

.

Brian

Hey,

It would be helpful if you would share your solutions/instructions/links to combat viruses, popup ads, and spyware. I think it would be an interesting thread to start.

Bob Russell · 01-12-2005, 10:58 PM

Computing is getting way too complicated now. I was just talking about that with someone today. It gets to the point that it sucks up all your time and you spend as much time keeping things running and up-to-date as you do using the computer to do whatever you are trying to accomplish. You have to spend a lot of time learning about new apps and technology before you can get them to work.

On the other hand, though, it doesn't seem like I've spent too much time on security software. Maybe I need to!? Router, firewall and anti-virus is all easy to set up and keep up to date. One of my spyware apps takes quite a while to run, but that's not a big deal for me.

I have bigger issues just trying to get new stuff to work, and to keep track of everything I'm keeping around on my hard drive because I "might need it later!"

But is this really helped out with Mac vs PC? I'm not sure I understand the benefit (other than how it feels good to get off of MS, of course!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballistic

...
(Slightly OT) I'm getting a bit fed up by wasting a significant amount of my time patching, troubleshooting, and keeping my XP box secure and free of spyware/adware/viruses. I'm also getting a bit tired of becoming "unoffical tech support" for less tech-savvy co-workers, friends and family members who aren't as tech-savvy and have Windows PCs. I get approached several times per week for advice on how to remove spyware/adware, etc. I'm always willing to help (I hand out mini-CDs with Adaware, Spybot, Firefox, links to online AV scanning tools and links/instructions on securing Windows), but I can't help but think that Microsoft is frustrating and alienating the average Windows user due to these issues. Most of the Mac users I know are Apple evangelists and are happy with their Macs because they don't have to worry about these issues as much and OS X just works. Oh yeah, the industrial design is stunning too

.
Brian

Brian · 01-12-2005, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zire71man

Hey,

It would be helpful if you would share your solutions/instructions/links to combat viruses, popup ads, and spyware. I think it would be an interesting thread to start.

Simple. Buy a Mac

.

Seriously, just common anti-spyware/adware/virus apps that I personally like and use, along with links and articles for securing Windows, all burned to a mini CD that will autorun to a html document with instuctions, links and icons on how to install the apps. Pretty low-tech and simple, and it's constantly a work in progress as I find new tools and articles, and as applications are updated. I only burn a few at a time so I won't be stuck with a stack that could quickly become outdated. BTW, MS just released Microsoft Antispyware Beta.

I'll put something together in a seperate thread when I have a bit more time.

Brian

Brian · 01-12-2005, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobR

I have bigger issues just trying to get new stuff to work, and to keep track of everything I'm keeping around on my hard drive because I "might need it later!"

Bob,

This is right up your alley. You should check out Spotlight, Apple's search tool that will be built into Tiger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobR

But is this really helped out with Mac vs PC? I'm not sure I understand the benefit (other than how it feels good to get off of MS, of course!)

From what I've seen and heard from Mac users I know, stuff just works, and usability is much better on OSX than Windows. In my experience and exposure to OSX (my family is Mac-centric), there would be a bit of learning (more like unlearning unintuitive Windows conventions like the "Start" button, etc) curve for 'switchers', but the core OSX system tools and bundled applications are much more intuitive, powerful, and integrated with one another than their Windows counterparts.

Brian

Zire · 01-13-2005, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballistic

Simple. Buy a Mac

.

Seriously, just common anti-spyware/adware/virus apps that I personally like and use, along with links and articles for securing Windows, all burned to a mini CD that will autorun to a html document with instuctions, links and icons on how to install the apps. Pretty low-tech and simple, and it's constantly a work in progress as I find new tools and articles, and as applications are updated. I only burn a few at a time so I won't be stuck with a stack that could quickly become outdated. BTW, MS just released Microsoft Antispyware Beta.

I'll put something together in a seperate thread when I have a bit more time.

Brian

Ballistic,

I have two macs at home and have been a mac user for over 10 years. Never bought a PeeCee before. My input was focused on your suite of apps for windoze users that's all.

johnsoax · 01-13-2005, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballistic

Bob,

This is right up your alley. You should check out Spotlight, Apple's search tool that will be built into Tiger.

From what I've seen and heard from Mac users I know, stuff just works, and usability is much better on OSX than Windows. In my experience and exposure to OSX (my family is Mac-centric), there would be a bit of learning (more like unlearning unintuitive Windows conventions like the "Start" button, etc) curve for 'switchers', but the core OSX system tools and bundled applications are much more intuitive, powerful, and integrated with one another than their Windows counterparts.

Brian

I've been a mac user since 1986 when dad brought home a mac from work. It was always fun in college to show people that my 7600/G3 400Mhz could keep up and pass most PIII 600-800's

.

On my current powerbook (which as people have said, is pretty much what the mini is, but in a different form), that I got in April, I have not shut it down except for the following reasons: Software install, or traveling somewhere. That's it. From April to July it was not shut down once (except for some software updates). It has never crashed, not once. Once a week it checks for software updates, and asks if I want them installed. I love macs. OSX is so much better than OS9 (and I loved 9 in its day

).

01-11-2005, 10:46 PM	#1
Chaos Evangelist Posts: 418 Karma: 281 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canada Device: Assorted older devices	Mac Mini and iPod Shuffle; iLife '05, iWork Yes, at Macworld Expo today Apple unveiled some new stuff... Hardware: Mac Mini - a sub-500 (American) Mac, with no display. Looks interesting. The hardware is a small step above most of the iBooks/PowerBooks. And the price! Can very reasonably compete with PCs of that price. (Edited out part about lack of DVD burner - it is available as an option.) iPod Shuffle - a flash based iPod, with no display, and either 512MB or 1GB of space. Yes, no display... They're marketing it as basically meant to play songs randomly. I believe there's also an option to play through albums in some sort of sequence... $99 for 512MB, $149 for 1GB. American prices, again. And it's TINY! Software included iLife '05 and iWork. iWork is a (small - for now) office suite with Keynote 2 and Pages (a new word processor). No, no spreadsheet for now... Maybe next year. I believe there were a few other things announced, but those four are the most talked about/most hyped. Last edited by Chaos; 01-12-2005 at 08:19 PM.

01-11-2005, 11:56 PM	#2
Zire Fanatic Posts: 522 Karma: 14050 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Astoria, NY Device: Zire 71	My take on MacWorld 2005 Hey All, Just finished watching the keynote and I have to say bravo! I've been needing a new mac (I think but my wife doesn't ). The imac mini is just seriously cool...I'm drooling as I write this. It has so many possibilities. Think about this scenario you have a monitor, keyboard, and mouse set up at work, at home and at pretty much anywhere anyone has a computer to be frank. You carry your imac mini in your backpack and use your mac from pretty much anywhere there is another computer set up. Disconnect the cables and plug them into your imac mini and there you go. I'm loving it! The price and what's included is awesome $499 for the imac mini which has a cdrw drive and a dvd player, 40 gigs of hd space, a fast processor, 256mb of memory, osx, the new version of ilife and did I say this before...the freaking price. Damn I want one. When steve pulled it out and showed us how small it was my jaw dropped. I was like holy s%it. When Steve showed us the graphs of market share regarding online music stores and sales for the ipod I was blown away. I have mixed feelings about the ipod shuffle. I mean its cool for people who do not have an ipod or infact a palm. I mean we're kind of spoiled with palm and pocket pc's we have a kind of ipod already with a memory card and a music player. I guess the integration with itunes is what is the selling point. The ipod shuffle has an auto fill option through itunes which allows you to set itunes to fill up the ipod shuffle depending on certain parameters. We could do that with our palm/pocket pc but it requires a bit of dragging and dropping. The ipod shuffle functions as a flash drive as well. We as palm/pocket pc users are spoiled in this sense as well. We can use our palm/pocket pc as an external flash drive on any computer using add on programs on our palm/pocket pc's (is this true for pocket pc's?). The ipod shuffle is cool for those users who can't afford an ipod, don't have a palm/pocket pc and are new at the whole mp3 player thing. A whole new program caught my eye as well called pages. Pages is the new word processor for mac that has a bucket load of functionality and integration with the whole ilife application set. I was impressed by Steve's presentation on it and the demonstration that one of his developers did. I was also kind of impressed with the dashbar and all of the widgets that you can have open at the same time in the background and switch to them to check on them whenever you have a minute without stopping you from getting your work done (long sentence I know). All in all the new product line and the future of mac integration is promising. I was impressed by this macworld. PS Did you notice Steve saying boom! and Mere Mortals alot? LOL

01-12-2005, 04:39 AM	#3
TadW Uebermensch Posts: 2,583 Karma: 1094606 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Italy Device: Kindle	I don't know about all this. Is Apple shifting to the value market? Or even more frightening: is it becoming a consumer electronics player? Value market: In the past, Apple cultivated an elitist Mac attitude and pushed it to new heights. How does a low-cost Mac Mini fit into that? Can we expect to find it soon in a Wal-Mart store? I wonder about the effect this has on all those Mac users who considered themselves "cool" because of their high-end machines. Consumer electronics: Is it just me or are most of the latest news and rumors around Apple based on consumer electronics? iPod, iPod Mini, iPod Flash - now the iPod Shuffle, iPod Phone (?) - what about some new breathtaking developments in the computer sector, Steve? We'll see what happens. Let's hope Apple is not making a huge strategic mistake here!

01-12-2005, 10:10 AM	#5
Gatton Groupie Posts: 150 Karma: 368 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2021, assorted Fire tablets.	I'm a hybrid user myself. I have a mac and a home built pc. Apple's machines are considered expensive by some but especially by the do it yourself-ers since we are used to building "Frankenboxes" and reusing parts. It's not a fair comparison of course but there it is. I love that the iMac mini is affordable and would like to have one. Having said that I hope it doesn't show up in Walmart. That's not being snobbish. There are two Walmarts near my house and I shop there regularly. It's the cheapest place to go to get your essentials. But Apple just can't compete on the cheap. Dell and eMachines would kill them. They are the kings of low cost beige boxes. But is Apple really trying to compete with them? Apple is still very much into their "Digital Hub" strategy and this machine fits very nicely into that role. I think it's more for the folks that buy an iPod (and there's tons of them) and then think "Hey this is cool...what else does Apple make." Before yesterday they might have suffered a little sticker shock but not now. Heck the eMac was already a good deal at $799 and this is basically a barebones version of that and lots smaller.

01-12-2005, 10:12 AM	#6
Gatton Groupie Posts: 150 Karma: 368 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2021, assorted Fire tablets.	Sorry to post again so soon but does anyone know when the keynote video is going to be available? Last I heard was 9pm Eastern US time last night but I check this morning and it's still not there. Would love to watch and see the crowd reaction to the new hardware. Also I wanted to watch the demos of iWork etc.

01-12-2005, 08:18 PM	#8
Chaos Evangelist Posts: 418 Karma: 281 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canada Device: Assorted older devices	Yes, the Macs-are-alot-more-expensive myth is even less true now. $500 for that machine is reasonable. Most people wouldn't need much more, except maybe a bump up in the RAM (the Mac Mini can take up to 1GB - 512MB should be enough in a Mac for most people though - my PowerBook usually uses about 400MB RAM, out of 1.25GB doing webbrowsing, light gaming, coding...). The 40 or 80Gb disk is very reasonable. On my 80GB PowerBook drive, I've still got 57GB free. So OS X is pretty good on disk space too. The 1.25/1.42 Ghz G4 is very reasonable too. On a 1Ghz G4 Powerbook, I've got plenty of power to do the things I mentioned before (webbrowsing, light gaming, etc.). It's pretty much a Powerbook in a different form factor. And I was mistaken in the original post. The DVD burning SuperDrive is available as an option.

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