Fastest phone: Hisense vs Onyx?

[norweger]

Two phones have been launched:
- Hisense A5
- Hisense A6L

Two phones will be launched soon:
- Hisense color e-ink (23rd of April)
- Onyx Boox Phone

I will buy one of these phone, for reading, audiobooks, music and some running apps.

I guess A6L is faster than A5. But the two upcoming devices, are they likely to be faster than the A6L?

As they're pure e-ink devices, I'm guessing no. But hard to tell, the hisense color e-ink device looks really fast in the preview video:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R241f-krUzA

If you own a Hisense A5, do you experience it as a slow device?

Where I am going with this thread is really if an e-ink device would have good enough hardware to handle audiobooks and running apps (Nike Run Club / Strava) simultaneously.

[Quoth]

It's only the screen updates that would be slow if everything else is equal. I'd make a guess and suggest that running and audiobook apps only need the screen to look at stats or select a book.
I'd imagine, and I'd be pleased to be wrong, that it's terrible for web browsing or video, but I don't even use a 7" tablet for that, never mind my phone, only the 10" tablet.

[rowe]

I don't have any speed issues with my Hisense A5 (no different to my Boox Nova 2), but I only use either for reading books. As a general smartphone, the A5 can't compete with my iPhone 8 - principally because of nature of e-ink screens.

The sophistication and options for refresh seem much better on Onyx than Hisense (assuming Onyx carry over the same controls from their readers to their phones). On Onyx you have a lot of control over display quality vs speed and can set defaults for each app.

As far as I know, that isn't available on Hisense and the default is a compromise (some ghosting, but fairly quick). On my Boox, for reading I prefer to use regal mode - slow, no ghosting. On the browser A2 mode - fast, ghosting. Everything else normal - a compromise.

[stumped]

googling one for you.. the A6L is quite high powered...
but it's LCD
more googling says LTPS is LCD technology

cant be bothered to google all of them for you - surely you can do that, and not expect someone else to ?
e.g. you type
Hisense color e-ink spec
into a google search and read the results.

The HiSense A6L runs on Android OS v9.0 (Pie) out of the box, but the A6L's firmware can be upgraded to a newer version of OS.

OS
Android OS v9.0 (Pie)
Chipset
Qualcomm Snapdragon 660 MSM8976 Plus
CPU
Octa-core, Quad-core 2.2 GHz Kryo, Quad-core 1.84 GHz Kryo
GPU
Adreno 512
DISPLAY
Screen size is measured in inches, diagonally from corner to corner. The 6.53 inches LTPS capacitive touch screen with 1080 x 2340 px resolution is multitouch capable.

Technology
LTPS
Size
6.53 inches
Resolution
1080 x 2340 px
Multitouch
yes

[Quoth]

LTPS is a screen driver technology. Though no doubt using LCD panels or OLED dots normally.
Low-temperature polycrystalline silicon is a method to produce TFTs (Thin Film Transistors). TFTs are needed for any decent resolution of LCD panel otherwise the multiplexing and number of connections are too high.

I've no idea if it can drive eink cells. I'd presumed, but don't know, that the milky liquid cells with black balls stuck to the front or back would use TFTs.

So it might be eink or LCD?

[stumped]

Originally Posted by Quoth

..

So it might be eink or LCD?

when I reread #1 i think he's listed 2 current LCD devices and 2 not-released-yet e - ink ones

but I am not quite bored enough to want to do all the searches and spec comparisons for him. I think I did spot that for one of the future devices, specs are not available yet anyway.

and I never understand why some folks want to use devices for things the makers never designed them for - be that i-ink for running, or bluetooth music on a crappy mono Kindle speaker, or you tube on a Kobo...
horses for courses & all that.

you want a pedometer - buy one.
you want an mp3 player - ditto.
you want an all-purpose device - get a decent smart phone...
any e-ink device is optimised for READING - the clue is in the name. don't expect it to also make tea...

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by stumped

don't expect it to also make tea...

Curiously Teasmades are still a real product. In the mid 1950s a common wedding present.
I picked one up cheap because (a) I was curious and (b) It was the first with a radio built in.
Though alarms/clocks with radio (look like radios with a clock) probably date from 1930s.

It turns out that compared with an actual maid or butler, or one member of a couple, or good older child, that a machine to automatically make tea so far are failures:
1) You have to remember to wash & replace the cups.
2) You have to remember to fill the stupid kettle, though cunningly it rests on a hidden switch so if it's not sufficiently filled it never turns on.
3) What about the milk? In pre 1970s UK and Ireland with no central heating in winter the milk can be set out, if it has a lid.
As a product concept an Alarm clock that makes the tea or instant coffee sounds good till you use it. Which is why they are still sold.
4) My wife can't see the point of them as I bring her a cup of tea 1st thing. She later makes coffee, once refreshed and awake.

However the smart phone has just about killed the MP3 players, entry level cameras and even basic HD video cameras. Even pocket calculators for adults. I've a nice HP42a RPN calculator simulation on my phone. It killed the PDA even before the iPhone came out (which was 9 years after first smart phone).

What happened to the Russian phone with LCD or OLED on one side and eink on the back (display a map even when phone off or flat)?

I think the jogging thing is purely an app using bluetooth to communicate with the actual pedometer, or other monitors such as pulse, blood pressure etc, though I might be wrong. It might use horribly expensive "running shoes".
Nefarious people have used the Fitbit App to spot US troop locations overseas as the data on the Web isn't secure. Fitbit bought out Pebble, which sensibly had an eink type display. The colour smart watches are like the 1970s Sinclair LED "Black Watch" for battery life. Laughable. Google, not content with 82% market Android and no doubt piqued at Apple eventually managing to sell their watch, is buying Fitbit. Privacy? That's for their plans and data, not yours. Google Android based Smartwatches/Fitness Wearables already exist. It makes more sense than their purchase of Nest, but amazing they are allowed to buy it.

[stumped]

What I liked most about all those fitness apps was when insurance companies started offering discounts for keeping fit, ( hitting some steps per day target ) so users learned to game the system by giving the phone a spin in the tumble drier or strapping it to the pet hedgehog...
When a reader named Rachel and her husband needed to rack up a set number of steps to get a discount on his employee health insurance, they turned to their pet hedgehog Ellie for help.

“We taped the pedometer to our hedgehog’s exercise wheel and ‘my husband’ would walk miles every night,” Rachel said. When Rachel’s husband tracked a certain level of activity, his company would pay a larger portion of the monthly premium.
L
Another sticks the tracker in a dryer. “My favorite trick is to throw it in the dryer, since it seems to think each rotation is like 2-3 steps,” one editor told me. “I put the tracker in the toe of a sock, tie the sock so it doesn’t fall out, and toss it in with my clothes on medium or low heat. A permanent press cycle is about 10,000 steps.”

[Quoth]

Never mind the ethics of loss of privacy to a Corporation via personal trackers or vehicle monitoring.

"Never underestimate the ingenuity of fools" or indeed companies to make money from information in a different way to that claimed. The ultimate result of unregulated access to personal tracking information and the poor regulation of companies is that some people would be unable to get any insurance. Which here is illegal for car drivers, but Insurance companies can get round that.
Computer based monitoring of a gadget may also give a bogus picture of high risk, apart from those gaming the system, which ultimately puts premiums up for everyone else. No company will give discounts so as to have less profit.

[rowe]

'when I reread #1 i think he's listed 2 current LCD devices and 2 not-released-yet e - ink one'
The A5 is an e-ink smartphone (I have it, but only use it for reading as I wanted something small and hardy enough for pockets).
The A6L is e-ink on one side, regular smartphone screen on the other

[norweger]

Originally Posted by Quoth

It's only the screen updates that would be slow if everything else is equal. I'd make a guess and suggest that running and audiobook apps only need the screen to look at stats or select a book.
I'd imagine, and I'd be pleased to be wrong, that it's terrible for web browsing or video, but I don't even use a 7" tablet for that, never mind my phone, only the 10" tablet.

Appreciated, Quoth!

For running I'd put the phone in my pocket, so it's just gotta be powerful enough to handle the apps.

In the preview of the Onyx it looked fast enough (well, almost fast enough) for web browsing. The only e-ink device I've had my hands on is a Kindle, and that was excruciatingly slow.

Originally Posted by rowe

The sophistication and options for refresh seem much better on Onyx than Hisense (assuming Onyx carry over the same controls from their readers to their phones). On Onyx you have a lot of control over display quality vs speed and can set defaults for each app.

As far as I know, that isn't available on Hisense and the default is a compromise (some ghosting, but fairly quick). On my Boox, for reading I prefer to use regal mode - slow, no ghosting. On the browser A2 mode - fast, ghosting. Everything else normal - a compromise.

Amazing. I think that would make it a heck of lot more usable.

Originally Posted by stumped

when I reread #1 i think he's listed 2 current LCD devices and 2 not-released-yet e - ink ones

but I am not quite bored enough to want to do all the searches and spec comparisons for him. I think I did spot that for one of the future devices, specs are not available yet anyway.

Yeah. Well. Stats are indeed useful when comparing, but it isn't the whole picture, as we've also got bloatware or stuffy Os, or nifty tricks like rowe mentioned, to speed up the user experience. So I thought hands on experience and guesstimates were what'd get me closest to answering it.

I've had my phone (HTC M8) repaired three times (!) this year, and it tanked yesterday, so it became pressing to find out these things. If the color e-ink from Hisense would by some miraculous happenstance be fast and with Google Services, then I've found a replacement for my old phone.

Originally Posted by stumped

and I never understand why some folks want to use devices for things the makers never designed them for - be that i-ink for running, or bluetooth music on a crappy mono Kindle speaker, or you tube on a Kobo...
horses for courses & all that.

you want a pedometer - buy one.
you want an mp3 player - ditto.
you want an all-purpose device - get a decent smart phone...
any e-ink device is optimised for READING - the clue is in the name. don't expect it to also make tea...

If the Hisense A6L had an LCD screen without popping colors, and Google Play Services, then that would be an all-purpose device. Elsewise I am stuck with a device for reading, a device with large enough SD card for audiobooks, etc etc etc. The fewer devices the better.

Originally Posted by Quoth

Nefarious people have used the Fitbit App to spot US troop locations overseas as the data on the Web isn't secure. Fitbit bought out Pebble, which sensibly had an eink type display. The colour smart watches are like the 1970s Sinclair LED "Black Watch" for battery life. Laughable. Google, not content with 82% market Android and no doubt piqued at Apple eventually managing to sell their watch, is buying Fitbit. Privacy? That's for their plans and data, not yours.

Noticed that too. Nothing is truly free. It's as they say: if you're not the customer, you're the product.

I don't really have anything to hide when it comes to my online activities, but can't say I appreciate privacy breaches, so for running apps and such, I've just begun using an old anonymous email address that I use for all things delinquent.

The troop location thing, I think that was from the app Strava. Anyways, in the wake of it I checked my email here and saw that my password lay open for the world to see.

Originally Posted by stumped

What I liked most about all those fitness apps was when insurance companies started offering discounts for keeping fit, ( hitting some steps per day target ) so users learned to game the system by giving the phone a spin in the tumble drier or strapping it to the pet hedgehog...
When a reader named Rachel and her husband needed to rack up a set number of steps to get a discount on his employee health insurance, they turned to their pet hedgehog Ellie for help.

“We taped the pedometer to our hedgehog’s exercise wheel and ‘my husband’ would walk miles every night,” Rachel said. When Rachel’s husband tracked a certain level of activity, his company would pay a larger portion of the monthly premium.
L
Another sticks the tracker in a dryer. “My favorite trick is to throw it in the dryer, since it seems to think each rotation is like 2-3 steps,” one editor told me. “I put the tracker in the toe of a sock, tie the sock so it doesn’t fall out, and toss it in with my clothes on medium or low heat. A permanent press cycle is about 10,000 steps.”

That sounds uniquely American

Originally Posted by Quoth

Never mind the ethics of loss of privacy to a Corporation via personal trackers or vehicle monitoring.

"Never underestimate the ingenuity of fools" or indeed companies to make money from information in a different way to that claimed. The ultimate result of unregulated access to personal tracking information and the poor regulation of companies is that some people would be unable to get any insurance. Which here is illegal for car drivers, but Insurance companies can get round that.
Computer based monitoring of a gadget may also give a bogus picture of high risk, apart from those gaming the system, which ultimately puts premiums up for everyone else. No company will give discounts so as to have less profit.

Word!

[rowe]

Tinkering with it more, I was a wrong in how basic the refresh settings are on the A5. You can set it to 'clear' (slower, less ghosting) or 'smooth' (faster, more ghosting).

This can be set to different defaults per app.

But, even in clear mode there's noticeably more ghosting than in 'normal' or especially 'regal' mode on a modern Boox.

Also, on Boox there's a high level of control over how often you get a complete page refresh whatever mode.

That said, I love my A5 as it's the only current e-reader that fits in my front-pocket. Also, the software updates are very regular so maybe they'll catch up (Boox rendering has improved with updates).

The things Hisense can't fix with software are the relatively low PPI and uneven front-light.