Books only lying poseurs could claim to like

issybird · 02-07-2022, 12:16 PM

A few comments in another thread, specifically mentioning War and Peace and Moby Dick, got me thinking about books that people don’t really believe anyone could like, and if someone does say they liked it or think it’s good, much less great, they’re clearly both lying and pretentious.

I enjoyed both weighty tomes mentioned myself, but I grant that I see the argument. It seems to me that books that qualify share the characteristics of being lengthy, difficult, boring and (dare I say it?) classic. I’m trying to come up with my own list. Finnegans Wake is probably on it; I’ve never really tried to read it and I did like Ulysses, but when I think of reading FW for pleasure my mind just can’t go there.

So what’s on your list of great books not even an author’s mother could wade through?

ownedbycats · 02-07-2022, 12:18 PM

I was made to read "The Old Man and the Sea" in high school. I think 90% of that is an old man sitting in a boat while a fish dragged it around. I remember the English teacher admitting that he kind of hated it, lol.

issybird · 02-07-2022, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

I was made to read "The Old Man and the Sea" in high school. I think 90% of that is an old man sitting in a boat while a fish dragged it around. I remember the English teacher admitting that he kind of hated it, lol.

And we start off with a bang! Not only did I give this five stars on GR, it made my ten-best list for 2018.

Still, fair enough. At least it’s short.

ETA: Here’s a link to the New Leaf Book Club discussion. Some were clearly in your camp.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=294716

Deskisamess · 02-07-2022, 01:22 PM

And Ladies of the Club

While I never finished it, and remember nothing about the 100 pages of so I did read, I do remember being bored out of my skull. This book was very popular about 25 years ago, and some of my friends raved about it. It was 1,100 pages of yawns.

Gone With the Wind

Hated every single page of this book except the last. I did finish it, it's my sister's favorite book. Had serious trouble with the slave dialogue, had to read it out loud to understand what was being said.

ZodWallop · 02-07-2022, 01:30 PM

Yeah, Finnegan’s Wake is the only one off the top of my head that I think nobody could like. I could understand getting something out of it with a group read. But sitting on your own, savoring line after line of impenetrable prose... I doubt it.

Another book I really disliked, but can admit 'maybe it's just me' is Dostoevsky's Notes From Underground. I hated the first long chunk of that book.

While we're besmirching reputations, I didn't care for Kafka's The Trial or Heller's Catch-22. Both books banged me over the head repeatedly with their ideas.

Atlas Shrugged: I think Ayn Rand is only profound if you read her as a teenager (I got through The Fountainhead). By the time I tried Atlas Shrugged, I was embarrassed by how poorly it was written (and I read and enjoy pulp).

Faulkner's The Sound and the Fury... this was likely my own failure. I just couldn't get through the first section, narrated stream of conscious by a developmentally disabled man.

Dazrin · 02-07-2022, 02:09 PM

I could not handle The Natural or Fight Club. I enjoyed the movies but the books were unbearable.

JSWolf · 02-07-2022, 02:29 PM

I did not like Dostoevsky's The Brother's Karamazov. While I liked Hyperion by Dan Simmons, I really disliked Geoffrey Chaucer's Canterbury Tales that it was based on.

Ulysses by James Joyce
Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace
The Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner
Naked Lunch by William S. Burroughs
Dracula by Bram Stoker
The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen
Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky
Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov
Gravity’s Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon

JSWolf · 02-07-2022, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazrin

I could not handle The Natural or Fight Club. I enjoyed the movies but the books were unbearable.

I thought The Fight Club (movie) is overrated.

Dazrin · 02-07-2022, 02:36 PM

It's a masterpiece, when compared to the book.

JSWolf · 02-07-2022, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazrin

It's a masterpiece, when compared to the book.

I had no idea they book is that bad.

Sirtel · 02-07-2022, 02:54 PM

Too many to count. And there are even more I haven't been remotely interested to try.

Actually I'm not a classics person at all. There aren't that many classics I've actually liked. I prefer genre fiction with an interesting story and characters. The quality of the prose alone is not enough to make me read a book, no matter how praised. I must be interested in the plot to even start.

issybird · 02-07-2022, 03:02 PM

For me, of the three main qualifications as I saw them, long, difficult, boring, I think a book has to have at least two of them to meet the “lying poseur” level of (dis)likeability. I get The Old Man and the Sea and The Trial and others of that ilk; they’re both difficult and dull enough to make someone look squinty-eyed at a person who said they liked them. Ditto for …and Ladies of the Club; not difficult, but certainly long and boring. But Pride and Prejudice? It’s one thing not to like it; maybe social comedies of manners are not your thing, and it’s compounded by being set two centuries ago. However, you really can’t get that other people might actually like it? That is, a book has to be more than just boring to qualify. There has to be that element of turgidity.

I’m not singling out Jon, just a title. I rather agree with him about Infinite Jest, Gravity’s Rainbow, Naked Lunch and Ayn Rand; well chosen. But a book has to be more than just “not to my taste.”

slm · 02-07-2022, 03:11 PM

Swann's Way.

I got through it--its not actually that long--but just the the thought of reading the rest of À la recherche du temps perdu puts me to sleep.

astrangerhere · 02-07-2022, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issybird

For me, of the three main qualifications as I saw them, long, difficult, boring, I think a book has to have at least two of them to meet the “lying poseur” level of (dis)likeability. I get The Old Man and the Sea and The Trial and others of that ilk; they’re both difficult and dull enough to make someone look squinty-eyed at a person who said they liked them. Ditto for …and Ladies of the Club; not difficult, but certainly long and boring. But Pride and Prejudice? It’s one thing not to like it; maybe social comedies of manners are not your thing, and it’s compounded by being set two centuries ago. However, you really can’t get that other people might actually like it? That is, a book has to be more than just boring to qualify. There has to be that element of turgidity.

I’m not singling out Jon, just a title. I rather agree with him about Infinite Jest, Gravity’s Rainbow, Naked Lunch and Ayn Rand; well chosen. But a book has to be more than just “not to my taste.”

As someone who is on their FIFTH read of War and Peace, I can see where folks would classify it as all three - long, difficult and boring. It has never been my experience, but it is for many people. Though I think the difficulty/boring scale is where your mileage is going to vary. The difficult to read standard is particularly difficult because you have readers coming to works at many different skill levels and contextual backgrounds. I tried to get another attorney I know who has almost as many degrees as I do to read War and Peace and she did not make it 10 pages. She did not have the patience for the footnotes or not understanding the history that was being referenced.

Having said that, my wife adores Hemingway and I just cannot bring myself to care. I was forced to read him for one of my degrees and I have never gotten over the dislike. It fell under the boring (and in some cases too long) for me.

I have a soft spot for war diaries personally and many folks cannot stand those. I think diaries are unique in that you have to know the history of the time you're reading to really appreciate them.

issybird · 02-07-2022, 03:23 PM

A couple of Nobelists have been named and I’m going to offer up another, Patrick White. The interminable, monumental dullness of Voss! Did the committee think it was time to have a literature laureate from Australia and White was the most ponderous one they identified? I bet even the most patriotic Australian finds him a slog.

02-07-2022, 12:16 PM	#1
issybird o saeclum infacetum Posts: 20,828 Karma: 229212311 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New England Device: H2O, Aura One, PW5	Books only lying poseurs could claim to like A few comments in another thread, specifically mentioning *War and Peace* and *Moby Dick, got me thinking about books that people don’t really believe anyone could like, and if someone does* say they liked it or think it’s good, much less great, they’re clearly both lying and pretentious. I enjoyed both weighty tomes mentioned myself, but I grant that I see the argument. It seems to me that books that qualify share the characteristics of being lengthy, difficult, boring and (dare I say it?) classic. I’m trying to come up with my own list. *Finnegans Wake* is probably on it; I’ve never really tried to read it and I did like *Ulysses, but when I think of reading FW for pleasure my mind just can’t go there. So what’s on your list of great books not even an author’s mother could wade through? Last edited by issybird; 12-30-2023 at 01:38 PM.*

02-07-2022, 01:30 PM	#5
ZodWallop Gentleman and scholar Posts: 11,386 Karma: 110916577 Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Space City, Texas Device: Clara BW; Nook ST w/Glowlight, Paperwhite 3	Yeah, Finnegan’s Wake is the only one off the top of my head that I think nobody could like. I could understand getting something out of it with a group read. But sitting on your own, savoring line after line of impenetrable prose... I doubt it. Another book I really disliked, but can admit 'maybe it's just me' is Dostoevsky's Notes From Underground. I hated the first long chunk of that book. While we're besmirching reputations, I didn't care for Kafka's The Trial or Heller's Catch-22. Both books banged me over the head repeatedly with their ideas. Atlas Shrugged: I think Ayn Rand is only profound if you read her as a teenager (I got through The Fountainhead). By the time I tried Atlas Shrugged, I was embarrassed by how poorly it was written (and I read and enjoy pulp). Faulkner's The Sound and the Fury... this was likely my own failure. I just couldn't get through the first section, narrated stream of conscious by a developmentally disabled man. Last edited by ZodWallop; 02-07-2022 at 01:35 PM.

02-07-2022, 03:02 PM	#12
issybird o saeclum infacetum Posts: 20,828 Karma: 229212311 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New England Device: H2O, Aura One, PW5	For me, of the three main qualifications as I saw them, long, difficult, boring, I think a book has to have at least two of them to meet the “lying poseur” level of (dis)likeability. I get *The Old Man and the Sea* and *The Trial* and others of that ilk; they’re both difficult and dull enough to make someone look squinty-eyed at a person who said they liked them. Ditto for *…and Ladies of the Club; not difficult, but certainly long and boring. But Pride and Prejudice? It’s one thing not to like it; maybe social comedies of manners are not your thing, and it’s compounded by being set two centuries ago. However, you really can’t get that other people might actually like it? That is, a book has to be more than just* boring to qualify. There has to be that element of turgidity. I’m not singling out Jon, just a title. I rather agree with him about *Infinite Jest, Gravity’s Rainbow, Naked Lunch* and Ayn Rand; well chosen. But a book has to be more than just “not to my taste.” Last edited by issybird; 02-07-2022 at 03:04 PM.

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02-07-2022, 12:18 PM	#2
ownedbycats Custom User Title Posts: 9,766 Karma: 68326525 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Libra H2O, formerly Aura HD	I was made to read "The Old Man and the Sea" in high school. I think 90% of that is an old man sitting in a boat while a fish dragged it around. I remember the English teacher admitting that he kind of hated it, lol.

02-07-2022, 01:22 PM	#4
Deskisamess Wizard Posts: 2,697 Karma: 43102409 Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Ohio Device: iPhone 7+, iPad mini, 2021 iPad Pro 12.9",Paperwhite 6.8"	And Ladies of the Club While I never finished it, and remember nothing about the 100 pages of so I did read, I do remember being bored out of my skull. This book was very popular about 25 years ago, and some of my friends raved about it. It was 1,100 pages of yawns. Gone With the Wind Hated every single page of this book except the last. I did finish it, it's my sister's favorite book. Had serious trouble with the slave dialogue, had to read it out loud to understand what was being said.

02-07-2022, 02:09 PM	#6
Dazrin Wizard Posts: 2,693 Karma: 74379913 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: PDXish Device: Kindle Voyage, various Android devices	I could not handle The Natural or Fight Club. I enjoyed the movies but the books were unbearable.

02-07-2022, 02:29 PM	#7
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 76,963 Karma: 138588794 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I did not like Dostoevsky's The Brother's Karamazov. While I liked Hyperion by Dan Simmons, I really disliked Geoffrey Chaucer's Canterbury Tales that it was based on. Ulysses by James Joyce Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace The Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner Naked Lunch by William S. Burroughs Dracula by Bram Stoker The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov Gravity’s Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon

02-07-2022, 02:36 PM	#9
Dazrin Wizard Posts: 2,693 Karma: 74379913 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: PDXish Device: Kindle Voyage, various Android devices	It's a masterpiece, when compared to the book.

02-07-2022, 02:54 PM	#11
Sirtel Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,804 Karma: 232664548 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Estonia Device: Kobo Sage & Libra 2	Too many to count. And there are even more I haven't been remotely interested to try. Actually I'm not a classics person at all. There aren't that many classics I've actually liked. I prefer genre fiction with an interesting story and characters. The quality of the prose alone is not enough to make me read a book, no matter how praised. I must be interested in the plot to even start.

02-07-2022, 03:11 PM	#13
slm Fool Posts: 433 Karma: 3618050 Join Date: Feb 2003 Device: Kindle: Voyage,PW1,KOA, Kobo: Clara Colour, Nook GLP, Pocketbook verse	Swann's Way. I got through it--its not actually that long--but just the the thought of reading the rest of À la recherche du temps perdu puts me to sleep.

02-07-2022, 03:23 PM	#15
issybird o saeclum infacetum Posts: 20,828 Karma: 229212311 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New England Device: H2O, Aura One, PW5	A couple of Nobelists have been named and I’m going to offer up another, Patrick White. The interminable, monumental dullness of *Voss*! Did the committee think it was time to have a literature laureate from Australia and White was the most ponderous one they identified? I bet even the most patriotic Australian finds him a slog.

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