iPad I beg every Apple Users' Attention!!

[tiananmen]

Dear my friends,

I'm sorry, this thread is not about any product review or technical news. I sincerely wish the administor would not delete my words here. And I hope you, the people with kindness in front of the screen would read this.

For the past several months, Foxconn, the worlds largest OEM manufactory in China has surprised the world by the news that Eleven of its working staff consecutively jumped out of the window and ceased their life forever.

Outsiders cannot get the real reasons of their jump. But you can think what an encourage they need when they conducted their final leap!

They are at the age 18, or 19. It is the age that his contemporaries in U.S. should sit in the classroom of a university. It is the age that their parents are concerning their daily life. It is the age that they should enjoy the sunshine that every corner of the worlds owns.

Do you know when you are reading with your iPAD that only $11 is the cost of manufacturing ( sorry, here, I should use the word "Assemble", it of course doesn't include the materials and other cost outside Foxcoon), for a iPad pricing at $499. And then how about the workers who are making those iPads, they earn around $200 per month, working day and night at least 10 hours without any holidays/ annual leave in one year.

Most of your daily digital products, iPhone, iPod, Dell, HP,Kindle are manufactured in this company in China.

My dear friends, I haven't the right to call for a boycott, to denounce the government, the evil company, but I beg you, everyone of you, to cast your attention a little bit on this.

Some of you may be arleady fathers or mothers. You may know better than I am what this mean to their parents! Those 11 workers, they should not die in the jail-liked factory, beat and scolded by the supervisors time by time before they decided to jump.

Next time, when you're reading or enjoying your new iPad or eink reader, please do not forget those young workers in the assemble line. We are all human beings. We share the same earth, we share the same destiny.

To whom the bell rings, Ernest Hemingway asked. To all of us, my friends!

Dear friends, I hope we can force a voice to let Apple/Kindle/Dell/HP know, we, the customers do NOT like to use products made with blood and tears! We need a clean Kindle, just like its color of white!!

Update: Thanks for all of your comments, Yesterday, the 12nd staff in consecutive in Foxconn jumped down from the window. Again, surprised the world. Why?

According to the report, as recently the global demand for iPAD and Kindle increases sharply, the Foxconn workers in China would usually take ovetime work up to 14 hrs a day with great pressure. That might be a possible reason why such cases break out collectively. I hope other friends in the forum can perhaps provide more details.

[WillAdams]

This is why existing U.S. laws forbidding the importation of products produced using forced labor should be enforced against China and similar countries.

Unfortunately, while Apple is in the news for this, most other ebook readers are also made in China, including some of Sony's (according to the back of my PRS-505 and 600, but not according to luqmaninbmore the 500 and 900) --- so there is at least one current model which is made elsewhere.

William

[athlonkmf]

Same things applies for every thing you can buy out there. Including that chocolate bar and that car you're driving.

The question would be, if those labors don't get to work in a factory, what other option would they have? Prostitution, mineworkers? Or would they just be killed off when they were a baby?

[tiananmen]

Originally Posted by athlonkmf

Same things applies for every thing you can buy out there. Including that chocolate bar and that car you're driving.

The question would be, if those labors don't get to work in a factory, what other option would they have? Prostitution, mineworkers? Or would they just be killed off when they were a baby?

A very good question. That is a very good reason that when Chinese leaders issued one child policy some 30 years ago, intentionally aimed to decrease the population.

But the option does not lie on work or die. Foxconn is profitable, and after every revolution, those workers still have survived.

BTW, Sony's PRS readers are all OEMed by Foxconn, the same company. You can see made in China at the back cover.

[The Old Man]

I question the $11?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2362373,00.asp
PC Mag says $259.60.

a Taiwanese registered corporation headquartered in Tucheng, Taiwan. Foxconn is the largest manufacturer of electronics and computer components worldwide and mainly manufactures on contract to other companies.

Apple investigating Foxconn suicides
"The deaths have drawn intense media scrutiny despite the fact that nine suicides among a population of some 450,000 workers is not that surprising, statistically speaking. According to the World Health Organization's most recent statistics, China's suicide rate is 13.9 per 100,000 people."

[luqmaninbmore]

Originally Posted by WillAdams

This is why existing U.S. laws forbidding the importation of products produced using forced labor should be enforced against China and similar countries.

Unfortunately, while Apple is in the news for this, most other ebook readers are also made in China, including Sony's (according to the back of my PRS-505 and 600) --- does anyone know of one which is made elsewhere?

William

Sony 900 is made in Japan as was the Sony 500. I believe the iRex DR800SG is made in the Netherlands. Some Sony Walkmen are made in Malaysia, an up and coming progressive Muslim economic power.

[HansTWN]

I have spent the last 20 years traveling around Asia. I visited more than 1000 factories (though not electronics factories). I can tell you that the hype regarding working conditions is way overblown. No, work is no picnic, but standards have improved so much over the last 20 years. All big foreign companies (like Adidas, Nike, Timberland, etc) have exacting standards regarding working conditions, hours, overtime. 5 working days with 8 hours per day, double pay for overtime. 60 hours per week maximum. Believe me, middle and upper management work a lot longer than the workers. They are in the office Saturday, and often even on Sunday. Because of the investment these factories brought so many people in these countries have pulled themselves out of abject poverty and have pretty good lives.

For someone like me who has seen the changes over 2 decades and how the standard of living for the average person (like the workers) has improved, it is absolutely amazing.

Sure, they are still behind western standards. But what would happen if western standards were imposed on all these countries? Don't forget that the standards in some countries (as we can see in Europe these days) are so high that the industries are uncompetitive and the governments go broke spending money they don't have. What these Asian countries have achieved in 20-30 years took 150 years in the west. Were do you find the really appalling working conditions? In the local (not foreign invested factories like Foxconn) that work for the local market. They work 7 days a week and there is absolutely no control over working conditions from the government's or the customers side.

It is very fashionable to cry "these poor exploited workers". But the reality is very different. It is difficult to get workers these days. Pay has doubled and trippled over the last few years. The work ethic has changed. That alone has assured that the factories are competing with each other with favorable working conditions.

[luqmaninbmore]

Originally Posted by athlonkmf

Same things applies for every thing you can buy out there. Including that chocolate bar and that car you're driving.

The question would be, if those labors don't get to work in a factory, what other option would they have? Prostitution, mineworkers? Or would they just be killed off when they were a baby?

Besides being factually incorrect (I mean, I don't eat chocolate bars made in china, last I checked, and I drive a car made in Japan), your question commits the fallacy of the false dichotomy. The options are not either to work under horrible, sometimes deadly, conditions or engage in prostitution or die. Working conditions can be improved and the standard of living can be raised, especially if the workers organize themselves and stand up to the factory taskmasters. We can help them by putting pressure on the Western businesses that use the factories to manufacture their products.

Luqman

[luqmaninbmore]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

I have spent the last 20 years traveling around Asia. I visited more than 1000 factories (though not electronics factories). I can tell you that the hype regarding working conditions is way overblown. No, work is no picnic, but standards have improved so much over the last 20 years. All big foreign companies (like Adidas, Nike, Timberland, etc) have exacting standards regarding working conditions, hours, overtime. 5 working days with 8 hours per day, double pay for overtime. 60 hours per week maximum. Believe me, middle and upper management work a lot longer than the workers. They are in the office Saturday, and often even on Sunday. Because of the investment these factories brought so many people in these countries have pulled themselves out of abject poverty and have pretty good lives.

For someone like me who has seen the changes over 2 decades and how the standard of living for the average person (like the workers) has improved, it is absolutely amazing.

Sure, they are still behind western standards. But what would happen if western standards were imposed on all these countries? These countries have achieved in 20-30 years, what took 150 years in the west. Were do you find the really appalling working conditions? In the local (not foreign invested factories like Foxconn) that work for the local market. They work 7 days a week and there is absolutely no control over working conditions from the government's or the customers side.

It is very fashionable to cry "these poor exploited workers". But the reality is very different. It is difficult to get workers these days. Pay has doubled and trippled over the last few years. The work ethic has changed. That alone has assured that the factories are competing with each other with favorable working conditions.

This all sounds well and good, but do you have any evidence to back up your anecdotal account? Studies on work conditions? Worker mortality and incidents of work-related injury and illness? There is no doubt that standards of living have improved over all in China (and even more so in Taiwan), but the claims you are making go beyond that and require more than mere anecdote to be accepted. I know that in many of the Gulf Countries you have an over-all high standard of living that is subsidized by the horrible conditions of the workers who, up until the recent financial melt-down, were building the Gulf with the sweat of their backs and the blood from their veins. In other words, over-all increases in standards of living can be deceptive.

Luqman

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

This all sounds well and good, but do you have any evidence to back up your anecdotal account? Studies on work conditions? Worker mortality and incidents of work-related injury and illness? There is no doubt that standards of living have improved over all in China (and even more so in Taiwan), but the claims you are making go beyond that and require more than mere anecdote to be accepted. I know that in many of the Gulf Countries you have an over-all high standard of living that is subsidized by the horrible conditions of the workers who, up until the recent financial melt-down, were building the Gulf with the sweat of their backs and the blood from their veins. In other words, over-all increases in standards of living can be deceptive.

Luqman

Those are not anecdotal accounts. I visit 20 factories per month, at least. That is part of my job, we sell machinery and accessories. I can speak, read, and write Chinese and can speak Vietnamese. So I am not just an outsider looking in.

Read the code of conduct that Nike, Adidas, and all major Western companies have for their suppliers. And it is being enforced. A copy must be displayed in every factory. They have frequent controls. Factories are being fined for overtime infractions and I have seen factories being taken off the supplier list for non-compliance.

I was talking about China, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc. All the workers are locals and the industries have brought the countries up. (though Indonesia is a special case, instability, fanaticism and the Asian crisis of 1997 threw them way back). Taiwan is at Western standards already, more prosperous than most of Europe and many parts of the US.

The rich Gulf countries are a very different story. They depend on the oil money, not on the industry. The workers there are expats "serving" the local population.

[scottjl]

[athlonkmf]

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

Besides being factually incorrect (I mean, I don't eat chocolate bars made in china, last I checked, and I drive a car made in Japan)

I hope that you understand that I'm saying that people being "exploited" happens in all developping countries. Not limited to China only.

And if industrialism is a way for workers to improve their financial life, why not? Don't put your western standards to all countries.

[BenG]

There was a report on BBC radio news this morning. The suicide rate at Foxconn is not far out of line with that of China's general population which has the highest suicide rate in the world.

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by The Old Man

I question the $11?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2362373,00.asp
PC Mag says $259.60.

a Taiwanese registered corporation headquartered in Tucheng, Taiwan. Foxconn is the largest manufacturer of electronics and computer components worldwide and mainly manufactures on contract to other companies.

Apple investigating Foxconn suicides
"The deaths have drawn intense media scrutiny despite the fact that nine suicides among a population of some 450,000 workers is not that surprising, statistically speaking. According to the World Health Organization's most recent statistics, China's suicide rate is 13.9 per 100,000 people."

Thanks for the links.

I wonder if this would have got any notice if the headlines didn't include Apple or iPhone and had said Tegra 2 instead?

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Tamara

Thanks for the links.

I wonder if this would have got any notice if the headlines didn't include Apple or iPhone?

Maybe you are too young to remember 1997. A big outcry and similar articles appear several times each year since then when some journalists want to write something that is sure to get easy publicity. It has nothing to do with Apple, it is usually labor unions who try to stir up some public sympathy so that they get more concessions in talks with employers in Europe and/or the US. All big corporations have been targeted. The big guys are being watched, they couldn't afford to exploit the workers even if they wanted to (I don't want to imply that they do want to)