Wanted: DjVu Plugin for DR800

martienne · 06-05-2010, 07:07 AM

I have so many DjVU files and it is very hard to convert them to pdf!

luite · 06-05-2010, 07:31 AM

Actually, it was developed by some guys at AT&T, some of whom still maintain the free djvulibre library. The PDF format is much more complex (since it supports vector images, embedded fonts, javascript and a lot more), and in recent versions, supports compression types similar to those used in DjVu.

Anyway, I'm going to release the plugin once IREX makes available the source code for the 2.0 firmware. They have changed the UDS interfaces (which the plugins use to talk to the document viewer application), so that the old version does not work anymore, and I can't fix it until I have the updated code for the interfaces.

martienne · 06-05-2010, 08:03 AM

Oh ok thanks for clarifying!!
Luite, you'd be doing us such an enormous favour if you sorted that...
I hope they will release the source code soon.

EDITED: Comment that irritated another user, removed.

akey · 06-05-2010, 08:23 AM

They have already stated that the source will come with the release of the final version of the 2.0 firmware. That will happen when it happens and they iron out the bugs of the RC1 release.

If you are unaware RC means Release Candidate and that implies that they are done implementing features and they are only looking to find and fix any remaining bugs. That could take a while, but usually RC means the final release will be fairly soon.

If you really need djvu now you can run evince on the beta 2.0 firmware. I know it runs, but I can't confirm that it will open up a djvu definitively.

martienne · 06-05-2010, 10:43 AM

My view is that they could make what they have available to people who want to develop third party apps, so so that they can get an early start... Particularly if it is at rc stage.

Evince looks great but I'm at a loss at how to get it running on the DR800...

My other option is to convert the DjVus to PDF.
Tried it with a commercial converter and that actually CRASHED my very high spec machine several times... That was last weekend and I have not had time to look at it again since then..

Haqqax · 06-05-2010, 03:41 PM

Evince in the current state is not a real option - it is only recompiled and the interface designed for the desktop does not work well on the book reader.

Converting to PDF can be done, but is time consuming and if you want to keep the image quality you will get huge PDFs.

In my opinion iRex could and should add djvu support themselves. IMHO djvu is the third most useful ebook format, right behind ePub and PDF, capable of things that ePub can not do and much better for graphic intensive documents than PDF.

Luite mentioned elsewhere, that creating the first version of the plugin took him only a couple of hours, and was a minor modification of the sources of the old poppler PDF plugin. As such, it integrates well with the rest of the device software.

Aegis · 06-05-2010, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martienne

Why don't we all email them about it, or tweet about it for those who used twitter?

How about you stop trying to rally everyone on the forum to irritate the folks at Irex?

I've been reading this forum for over a year, but only now i feel the need to register and post something.
For a self-proclaimed IT-manager, you don't seem to be in touch with how things work.
For one, the sources will be released when the final software comes out.
Secondly, you ask a lot of questions that are already in this forum. There is a DjVu-topic where Luite said that he will update the plugin for the DR800 and DR1000 when the final sources are released. You opened another topic on third-party apps, while this forum has many topics about those (including support, thank you contributors!)

I understand that you have a lot of questions and that you're impatient about the final software... but bugging the people at Irex is not gonna help AT ALL. There was a time when they were on these forums, helping everyone out and listening. But they were scared away by people who ask and complain too much. Now they are back, giving us a second chance. So please don't ruin it by being pushy, stop pointing fingers and the non-stop complaining. You found a bug? Great! Good job, the people at Irex will try and solve it before the final release is out. From there on, you should stop. Don't tell them what (however, you are free to ask them!)to do and don't talk about ethics (other topic), 'cause you might need to review your forum-ethics.

martienne · 06-06-2010, 04:13 AM

[You created a new account just to have a go at me? Next time, try a PM.
But if your intention was to put me off the forum, you succeeded.]

There is nothing unreasonable about complaining when software has serious regressions and companies usually allocate the efforts and resources partly based on the feedback they get. I just paid EUR499 for an Irex product and do not want chopped off margins text that's obscured in the botton.

Sorry if my questions irritated you, or anyone else. Sorry that I do not have the time to read through every thread to see what's already come up in the past.

Next time, PM or say what you have to say under your real nick.

Aegis · 06-06-2010, 10:24 AM

i'm sorry for being that blunt, but at the moment we HAVE input. The way you are rallying people up, we (meaning the rest of the forum and myself) risk losing that input.
Everyone has a lot of questions, and Irex is here at the moment, giving us feedback and acknowledging the input. WHat more can we ask for?

Yes, you paid 499€ for a device that they produced. They said pen-input would become available (as a DR1000S-user, i was waiting for some promises as well). The rest is working on your device. Bugs are being squashed and we get beta's and RC's. Ok, it is unfortunate that a bug of that magnitude got caught in the RC... But you know the process of developing software... so if you don't like bugs and other surprises, just wait for the final release. Noone forced you to update to the beta/RC and there is no point at all to start a mass-mailing for software-issues in a release that's known not to be the final.

If this happens in the final, i'll have your back! But the action (and direction) you are going for at the moment is just ridiculous.

Haqqax · 06-06-2010, 05:53 PM

>> The way you are rallying people up, we (meaning the rest of the forum and myself) risk losing that input.

I thought this forum was for everybody - both happy and unhappy customers. Maybe there should be a sticker at the top, warning about saying anything that iRex might not like?

I did read this forum before purchasing my reader and the fact that I have seen iRex developers answering questions here was something that helped to sell their product, even though I have seen clips on youtube about broken device and poor, poor support from the company.

Unfortunately, nobody from iRex decided to say anything (in several threads) about their plan to support DJVU, which is a pity. I hope they will decide to take part in this discussion.

I do not appreciate your attitude, Aegis - telling another user on a public forum to shut up, for the reasons that you explained... I hope you were wrong, when you said that "bugging the people at Irex is not gonna help AT ALL".

I do support martienne. I am happy that he created this topic, because this subject is important to me as well, and I hope that if it pops up from time to time, iRex will take notice.

DR800 is a good device, and I really appreciate the fact that SDK is available and iRex did chose to be developer friendly. But this is a commercial product and we are paying customers, not the people who got the software for free and should only be grateful. Some of our expectations are not met. iRex is free to choose to ignore us and put whatever they wish in the roadmap of their product. And we, if we feel ignored we are free to write about this on internet fora (including this one, unless we get banned), twitter, youtube, personal webpages and finally choose to buy products of other companies that have similar devices and do not have a reputation of ignoring their own customers.

So far nobody got agressive, and IMHO topics like this one are pure opportunity for iRex for positive public relations, no matter whether they can promise support for this particular feature or not. Keeping quiet is (IMHO) the worst solution, as this is negative PR. Very much reinforced by your "shut up, because iRex developers might get scared off and stop giving us any feedback"

Aegis · 06-06-2010, 09:28 PM

I meant to make clear that we have the privilige of having some say in what the folks at Irex are doing. Even a greater one in the fact that they are here to discuss it with us and take their time for it as well.

Trying to force them verbally or trying to get a bunch of people to put pressure on them like that, is going to ruin the input we now have. There is nothing wrong with sending an email to the developpers, but trying to get everyone to push for features and a quicker release of patches is going to have an averse effect.

As i said before: a while ago, we (the readers) got feedback straight from irex. What happened? Everyone was pushing, asking and complaining. Irex left the forum.
So please, don't get pushy. There is an opportunity, so we don't need to hoist the sails. You can ask questions and they will listen. When pressuring, they'll leave. It's your choice on how you handle this.

I never meant to shut Martienne up, i only slapped his/her wrist for complaing about ethics at Irex, while displaying bad form his/her self.

edit: complaining and pressuring are two complete different things btw.

Gertjan · 06-07-2010, 05:20 AM

I must say some comments make me chuckle a little when they fairly underestimate how many people are involved, what it takes to deliver a product like this and bring it to mass market. But there's no need to worry, we don't get upset that easily.

We visit these forums because we appreciate early and honest feedback from a well informed and articulate group of users. Even if we don't answer all your questions or implement every request, we read and learn.

To answer the original question; we plan to release source code of the 2.0 software some time before the final release, so developers can have a go with the updated interfaces. We really like the DjVU plugin too

Haqqax · 06-07-2010, 04:20 PM

Hello Gertjan. Thanks a lot for your answer.

I am really impatient to be able to read djvu on my device :-)

Do you think that djvu support can make it into DR800 product roadmap, so that in the future we can enjoy it with every release coming directly from iRex?

Is there anything that we - the users of your products - can make to convince Irex to add support for DJVU to the firmware?

martienne · 06-07-2010, 04:51 PM

Actually, I am very impressed that Irex is monitoring this forum and that someone from the dev team (?) responds to the posts.

I knew what I was doing when I went with Irex and I'd rather deal with a smaller European company with a vision, than something like Dell or Sony... It was worth paying over the odds for. I get the impression that iRex genuinely has a vision and is passionate about eBooks.

I'd rather hear straight talk ('no we won't do it') or ('we don't know when we'll be finished with that release..') than glossy corporate sales talk and empty promises. Irex gives the impression of keeping the corporate BS at a relatively low level which I appreciate a lot.

In short; I respect the company and went with them quite deliberately.

My expectations on firmware and new functionality are completely realistic.
Like I said I have worked in software development for many years and I know there will always be bugs, and that a development team can only work on a limited number of new features at any time. I happen to think DjVu is important but I realise I might be in a minority among the current users.

The bugs in the latest Beta seemed like clearcut cases of regressions and my point was simply that I was keen to see them fixed asap. I don't enjoy reading texts where the last few characters on every line are chopped off. i am sure most people would find that reasonable.

Likewise words at the bottom of the screen are chopped off PDFs in the latest Beta firmware.. I think testing ought to have picked this up, but mistakes happen and it's not biggie if there is a patched version of the Beta available soon.

Right now I am happy that I went with Irex and I have every faith that the firmware will improve with every new release.

Btw, I am a woman.

Shaggy · 06-07-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martienne

The bugs in the latest Beta seemed like clearcut cases of regressions and my point was simply that I was keen to see them fixed asap. I don't enjoy reading texts where the last few characters on every line are chopped off. i am sure most people would find that reasonable.

Likewise words at the bottom of the screen are chopped off PDFs in the latest Beta firmware.. I think testing ought to have picked this up, but mistakes happen and it's not biggie if there is a patched version of the Beta available soon.

FYI, Gertjan already mentioned in another thread that this bug was an accidental regression and will be fixed soon in an intermediate release.

06-05-2010, 07:07 AM	#1
martienne .~^пиратка^~. Posts: 238 Karma: 14000 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ask NSA... Device: Onyx Boox M92	Wanted: DjVu Plugin for DR800 I have so many DjVU files and it is very hard to convert them to pdf! Last edited by martienne; 06-07-2010 at 04:51 PM.

06-05-2010, 08:03 AM	#3
martienne .~^пиратка^~. Posts: 238 Karma: 14000 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ask NSA... Device: Onyx Boox M92	Oh ok thanks for clarifying!! Luite, you'd be doing us such an enormous favour if you sorted that... I hope they will release the source code soon. EDITED: Comment that irritated another user, removed. Last edited by martienne; 06-07-2010 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Comment that irritated another user, removed.

06-06-2010, 09:28 PM	#11
Aegis Member Posts: 21 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Irex DR1000S	I meant to make clear that we have the privilige of having some say in what the folks at Irex are doing. Even a greater one in the fact that they are here to discuss it with us and take their time for it as well. Trying to force them verbally or trying to get a bunch of people to put pressure on them like that, is going to ruin the input we now have. There is nothing wrong with sending an email to the developpers, but trying to get everyone to push for features and a quicker release of patches is going to have an averse effect. As i said before: a while ago, we (the readers) got feedback straight from irex. What happened? Everyone was pushing, asking and complaining. Irex left the forum. So please, don't get pushy. There is an opportunity, so we don't need to hoist the sails. You can ask questions and they will listen. When pressuring, they'll leave. It's your choice on how you handle this. I never meant to shut Martienne up, i only slapped his/her wrist for complaing about ethics at Irex, while displaying bad form his/her self. edit: complaining and pressuring are two complete different things btw. Last edited by Aegis; 06-06-2010 at 09:37 PM.

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06-05-2010, 07:31 AM	#2
luite Connoisseur Posts: 82 Karma: 256 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Netherlands Device: dr1000	Actually, it was developed by some guys at AT&T, some of whom still maintain the free djvulibre library. The PDF format is much more complex (since it supports vector images, embedded fonts, javascript and a lot more), and in recent versions, supports compression types similar to those used in DjVu. Anyway, I'm going to release the plugin once IREX makes available the source code for the 2.0 firmware. They have changed the UDS interfaces (which the plugins use to talk to the document viewer application), so that the old version does not work anymore, and I can't fix it until I have the updated code for the interfaces.

06-05-2010, 08:23 AM	#4
akey Member Posts: 18 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: iRex ...	They have already stated that the source will come with the release of the final version of the 2.0 firmware. That will happen when it happens and they iron out the bugs of the RC1 release. If you are unaware RC means Release Candidate and that implies that they are done implementing features and they are only looking to find and fix any remaining bugs. That could take a while, but usually RC means the final release will be fairly soon. If you really need djvu now you can run evince on the beta 2.0 firmware. I know it runs, but I can't confirm that it will open up a djvu definitively.

06-05-2010, 10:43 AM	#5
martienne .~^пиратка^~. Posts: 238 Karma: 14000 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ask NSA... Device: Onyx Boox M92	My view is that they could make what they have available to people who want to develop third party apps, so so that they can get an early start... Particularly if it is at rc stage. Evince looks great but I'm at a loss at how to get it running on the DR800... My other option is to convert the DjVus to PDF. Tried it with a commercial converter and that actually CRASHED my very high spec machine several times... That was last weekend and I have not had time to look at it again since then..

06-05-2010, 03:41 PM	#6
Haqqax Member Posts: 11 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2010 Device: DR800S	Evince in the current state is not a real option - it is only recompiled and the interface designed for the desktop does not work well on the book reader. Converting to PDF can be done, but is time consuming and if you want to keep the image quality you will get huge PDFs. In my opinion iRex could and should add djvu support themselves. IMHO djvu is the third most useful ebook format, right behind ePub and PDF, capable of things that ePub can not do and much better for graphic intensive documents than PDF. Luite mentioned elsewhere, that creating the first version of the plugin took him only a couple of hours, and was a minor modification of the sources of the old poppler PDF plugin. As such, it integrates well with the rest of the device software.

06-06-2010, 04:13 AM	#8
martienne .~^пиратка^~. Posts: 238 Karma: 14000 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ask NSA... Device: Onyx Boox M92	[You created a new account just to have a go at me? Next time, try a PM. But if your intention was to put me off the forum, you succeeded.] There is nothing unreasonable about complaining when software has serious regressions and companies usually allocate the efforts and resources partly based on the feedback they get. I just paid EUR499 for an Irex product and do not want chopped off margins text that's obscured in the botton. Sorry if my questions irritated you, or anyone else. Sorry that I do not have the time to read through every thread to see what's already come up in the past. Next time, PM or say what you have to say under your real nick.

06-06-2010, 10:24 AM	#9
Aegis Member Posts: 21 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Irex DR1000S	i'm sorry for being that blunt, but at the moment we HAVE input. The way you are rallying people up, we (meaning the rest of the forum and myself) risk losing that input. Everyone has a lot of questions, and Irex is here at the moment, giving us feedback and acknowledging the input. WHat more can we ask for? Yes, you paid 499€ for a device that they produced. They said pen-input would become available (as a DR1000S-user, i was waiting for some promises as well). The rest is working on your device. Bugs are being squashed and we get beta's and RC's. Ok, it is unfortunate that a bug of that magnitude got caught in the RC... But you know the process of developing software... so if you don't like bugs and other surprises, just wait for the final release. Noone forced you to update to the beta/RC and there is no point at all to start a mass-mailing for software-issues in a release that's known not to be the final. If this happens in the final, i'll have your back! But the action (and direction) you are going for at the moment is just ridiculous.

06-06-2010, 05:53 PM	#10
Haqqax Member Posts: 11 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2010 Device: DR800S	>> The way you are rallying people up, we (meaning the rest of the forum and myself) risk losing that input. I thought this forum was for everybody - both happy and unhappy customers. Maybe there should be a sticker at the top, warning about saying anything that iRex might not like? I did read this forum before purchasing my reader and the fact that I have seen iRex developers answering questions here was something that helped to sell their product, even though I have seen clips on youtube about broken device and poor, poor support from the company. Unfortunately, nobody from iRex decided to say anything (in several threads) about their plan to support DJVU, which is a pity. I hope they will decide to take part in this discussion. I do not appreciate your attitude, Aegis - telling another user on a public forum to shut up, for the reasons that you explained... I hope you were wrong, when you said that "bugging the people at Irex is not gonna help AT ALL". I do support martienne. I am happy that he created this topic, because this subject is important to me as well, and I hope that if it pops up from time to time, iRex will take notice. DR800 is a good device, and I really appreciate the fact that SDK is available and iRex did chose to be developer friendly. But this is a commercial product and we are paying customers, not the people who got the software for free and should only be grateful. Some of our expectations are not met. iRex is free to choose to ignore us and put whatever they wish in the roadmap of their product. And we, if we feel ignored we are free to write about this on internet fora (including this one, unless we get banned), twitter, youtube, personal webpages and finally choose to buy products of other companies that have similar devices and do not have a reputation of ignoring their own customers. So far nobody got agressive, and IMHO topics like this one are pure opportunity for iRex for positive public relations, no matter whether they can promise support for this particular feature or not. Keeping quiet is (IMHO) the worst solution, as this is negative PR. Very much reinforced by your "shut up, because iRex developers might get scared off and stop giving us any feedback"

06-07-2010, 05:20 AM	#12
Gertjan ex-IRX developer Posts: 158 Karma: 224 Join Date: Oct 2008 Device: Irex DR800S, DR1000S, iLiad	I must say some comments make me chuckle a little when they fairly underestimate how many people are involved, what it takes to deliver a product like this and bring it to mass market. But there's no need to worry, we don't get upset that easily. We visit these forums because we appreciate early and honest feedback from a well informed and articulate group of users. Even if we don't answer all your questions or implement every request, we read and learn. To answer the original question; we plan to release source code of the 2.0 software some time before the final release, so developers can have a go with the updated interfaces. We really like the DjVU plugin too

06-07-2010, 04:20 PM	#13
Haqqax Member Posts: 11 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2010 Device: DR800S	Hello Gertjan. Thanks a lot for your answer. I am really impatient to be able to read djvu on my device :-) Do you think that djvu support can make it into DR800 product roadmap, so that in the future we can enjoy it with every release coming directly from iRex? Is there anything that we - the users of your products - can make to convince Irex to add support for DJVU to the firmware?

06-07-2010, 04:51 PM	#14
martienne .~^пиратка^~. Posts: 238 Karma: 14000 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ask NSA... Device: Onyx Boox M92	Actually, I am very impressed that Irex is monitoring this forum and that someone from the dev team (?) responds to the posts. I knew what I was doing when I went with Irex and I'd rather deal with a smaller European company with a vision, than something like Dell or Sony... It was worth paying over the odds for. I get the impression that iRex genuinely has a vision and is passionate about eBooks. I'd rather hear straight talk ('no we won't do it') or ('we don't know when we'll be finished with that release..') than glossy corporate sales talk and empty promises. Irex gives the impression of keeping the corporate BS at a relatively low level which I appreciate a lot. In short; I respect the company and went with them quite deliberately. My expectations on firmware and new functionality are completely realistic. Like I said I have worked in software development for many years and I know there will always be bugs, and that a development team can only work on a limited number of new features at any time. I happen to think DjVu is important but I realise I might be in a minority among the current users. The bugs in the latest Beta seemed like clearcut cases of regressions and my point was simply that I was keen to see them fixed asap. I don't enjoy reading texts where the last few characters on every line are chopped off. i am sure most people would find that reasonable. Likewise words at the bottom of the screen are chopped off PDFs in the latest Beta firmware.. I think testing ought to have picked this up, but mistakes happen and it's not biggie if there is a patched version of the Beta available soon. Right now I am happy that I went with Irex and I have every faith that the firmware will improve with every new release. Btw, I am a woman.

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