07-12-2010, 01:24 PM | #1 |
i warned you ...
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New buttons images
Is there a way of getting the “old” icon set (buttons) back?
Or better, is there some graphic designer / artist in this community that could contribute some nice button faces? Thanks |
07-12-2010, 01:27 PM | #2 |
Wizard
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07-12-2010, 02:42 PM | #3 |
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07-12-2010, 03:17 PM | #4 | |
Wizard
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Quote:
I've only played with icons once (when I tried to put the Merge option as a button on the toolbar). In my humble defense I wrote: "If you run from source you can use any icons you want. " not "If and only if you run from source you can use any icons you want." Perhaps someone wants to test and tell us. |
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07-12-2010, 04:18 PM | #5 |
i warned you ...
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Wait; do not get me wrong. I will try to explain myself better.
I’ve been around for some time; even before there was GUI at all and I’ve seen all sort of “experiments”, thank you very much. I am not asking for the possibility of using what ever graphics I choose. Down that road calibre may loose its identity. I am just asking for better and more consistent graphics. Or for the possibility of reverting to the old ones. Did I mention I am not a designer? However, IMHO the previous ones were better. Look at least, at the inconsistency of the colors on the new buttons and the excessive use of arrows. I can see the recycling and Novell logos in the current set. By “convention” a magnifying glass is “search” not view. Can someone explain what is depicted in the preferences button? And what on the configuration? Is there someone willing to contribute? |
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07-12-2010, 04:41 PM | #6 | ||||
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The new ones are better. You may not agree. I may not agree. That's not important. Only one set of graphics can be chosen and someone will always not agree, while someone else will agree. These have been chosen.
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07-12-2010, 06:30 PM | #7 | ||
i warned you ...
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Oh boy! Normally, I would avoid useless arguments; normally I would say, yes you are right, even in your choice of quotes. However, I will bite into this one…
Quote:
Here I could say: “You are wrong”, but I will say: It is fairly easy to implement multiple graphics for a given toolbar, but that is beside the point. I am pleading for real designers (not me or you, for that matter) that could produce and contribute good quality graphics ( a single set! ). Quote:
I was actually referring to the 7th from the left button. What is represented there? But if you allow me, lets go orderly:
Do you still believe that the new ones are better? I will ask it again: Is there someone willing to contribute?To contribute better and more consistent graphics. Thanks |
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07-12-2010, 06:45 PM | #8 |
creator of calibre
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This is going to be my only post on this subject. Whether one set of icons is "better" or "worse" is entirely subjective. If you want different icons, create a set and then convince me it is better. If I'm convinced the icons will change, if I'm not they wont.
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07-12-2010, 07:42 PM | #9 | |
i warned you ...
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Quote:
I just hope that someone else here can produce a good icon set and submit it. Thanks |
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07-12-2010, 07:57 PM | #10 |
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I've been reluctant to say anything about the new icons because I didn't want to hurt the artist's feelings. Besides, I thought, it might just be my new monitor, or maybe just unfamiliarity. I figured I'd get used to them. Except ... I haven't.
As a graphic designer, I'm self-taught. I don't claim to be an expert. But I have read fairly extensively on the subject, both for my website design business and the software company that preceded it. I draw like a six-year-old, but I know what makes a good icon, even if I can't make the pixels go where they should be myself. That said, the following is just my opinion, and I mean no offense to the person who provided the time and effort to create the new icons. The problems I see are as follows: The icons are too different in style, as if they've been pulled from several different programs. They use non-standard symbols for standard behaviors, or familiar symbols for different purposes. They do such a poor job of communicating their function that I have to rely on the labels. They are better at larger sizes, but I suspect most people use them at the smallest size, to save more screen real estate for books. "Edit meta information" and "Remove books" look professional; they're crisp, clear, and there's a one-pixel deboss on them (yes, I know that some - though still not all - of the others are debossed at large size, but there needs to be a consistent look at all sizes). The others look like something I would draw; they're much less clear, and they do not use their space well. "Add books" isn't bad, but the plus sign needs to be larger. The colors on "Convert E-books" are muddy, and at least on this monitor, the arrows come out as just a smear. The magnifying glass on "View" is generally used to signify search or zoom, and it's confusing in this context. "Fetch news" looks like a street sign, complete with post. "Send to device" could be anything. "Save to disk" is conventionally a drawing of a floppy; I'm not sure what that icon is actually supposed to represent. "Preferences" looks like a guy in a weird hat with a thought balloon. "Edit meta information" is good, and "Help" would be good if it was in the same style, and lost that shadow (why is it the only one with a shadow?). "Remove books" ... why would I connect a recycling symbol with "remove books"? It looks more like some sort of refresh. Also, even at large size, but especially at medium and small, the glyphs themselves are too far away from their corresponding arrows for their drop-down menus. Given the space constraints of the toolbar that might not be easy to fix, but it's very noticeable. I'd suggest moving the + on "Add books" to the center, enlarging it, and changing the color of the book so it doesn't get confused with the Swiss flag. "Convert ebooks" needs higher-contrast colors, and if I were doing it (be thankful I'm not!) I'd probably do it as a book with a cover of two contrasting colors, divided on the forward-slash diagonal, with a small arrow from left to right across the division. I think "View" should be an open book. "Fetch news" should have some reference to a newspaper (perhaps a folded or rolled one?); the starburst effect doesn't say "news" and even the N doesn't for people in whose languages the word for "news" starts with a different letter. I think "Send to device" should lose the arrow and have a clearer representation of a device, or it should just have a nice big arrow. "Save to disc" (should it perhaps be renamed "Export books"?) should look like ... well, anything that has more to do with a disc than it does; I honestly don't know what it's trying to represent. "Remove books" needs to be something other than a recycling symbol -- perhaps a book with an X over it? "Help" needs to match the style of the other icons; a big red ? would do nicely. "Preferences" needs to be simpler (it's a mess at small sizes) -- I've always used a little wrench when I've had to design icons (and even I can draw a wrench!). Debossing should be consistent, and should be visible (or not) uniformly for each size. Yeah, that's a lot of quibbling. This is not meant to denigrate anyone's efforts; I know how hard it is. But I think the icons can be better, hence the suggestions. This is a horrible thing to suggest for a program that's still in version 0 ... but ... skins? /duck! Yeah, I know, with all the stuff that people want and need for calibre, skins are about as trivial and unimportant as you can get. But I'd love to have a choice of interface metaphors for calibre: "Scriptorium": a parchment background with icons involving quill pens, scrolls, and illumination. "Stacks", dimly showing unending shelves of books, where the icons would all involve books, shelves, and so on. Someone who doesn't share my obsession with juxtaposing the old and the new might prefer a science fiction-themed skin, perhaps with a brushed metal background and glowing symbols for icons. Look at the crazy stuff people do for Firefox. And yes, I know it's probably not worth the work. We love calibre for its function, not its form; the people who want to customize every pixel they see before them are just going to have to suffer. But when I get started with the blue-sky thinking, things like that fall out. Anyway, that's my take on the icon situation. They really do need a reworking. Some sort of "load your own icons" option would probably make everybody happy, and turn the focus back on what calibre does, not what it looks like. Though as a person who has WinXP customized to look like Win95, I guess I'm probably not the best to judge what a GUI should look like. p.s. You probably do not want to see the results of me attempting to draw, but what are the specs for the icons? I'll see what I can do .... |
07-13-2010, 01:25 AM | #11 |
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I can draw flies. And a bath.
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07-13-2010, 09:32 AM | #12 |
creator of calibre
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That's because open source developers, unlike corporate silo developers/designers, work with a much larger ecosystem of application environments and so know that there is no One True Way of doing anything.
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07-13-2010, 10:35 AM | #13 | ||
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Quote:
Since Kovid changed to the new ones from the old ones, he's presumably already decided the new ones are better. Personally, I'm totally agnostic on the issue, other than that I generally like a fresh look, just for fun. If you think you've got good reasons as to why the new ones are worse, feel free to try to build support for a change. By the time you've got it built, I'll probably be happy to see another fresh look. Last edited by Starson17; 07-13-2010 at 01:30 PM. |
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07-13-2010, 12:16 PM | #14 |
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While I will admit I'm not exactly thrilled about the new icons, their appearance is immaterial to how well the program works. I would much rather have a program that works well than looks good (not that it doesn't now). I would prefer that Kovid continue to concentrate with his fine work in making a useful program and concentrate primarily on changes to improve the usability of the program than be diverted over some silly icons (face it, no matter what icons he puts up, someone will bitch about it). I looked at a lot of programs had glitzy and even really nice looking screen displays that were nicer than calibre's but they were not nearly as useful. Guess which program I chose? Too much of an issue has been made over these icons. Please, everyone, build a bridge and get over it.
Btw, Starson17, I so agree with you about creeping option bloat (are you listening MS?). |
07-13-2010, 12:50 PM | #15 | |
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