How widely supported are smallcaps?

Land_Outcast · 05-31-2020, 09:36 PM

What it says on the cover, he.
No, really, from what I've investigated (not directly, mind you, but I don't have access to a dozen viewers), the word is small caps aren't widely supported.
But how bad is it?
I've thought I could just [agonized screeching]fake them[/agonized screeching] with {font-size: 70%;} and all caps (I was half-happy upon seeing the numerical values for font-weight, thinking, oh fool, I could at least beef them up, no such luck in EPUBS and most browsers).

DNSB · 05-31-2020, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Land_Outcast

What it says on the cover, he.
No, really, from what I've investigated (not directly, mind you, but I don't have access to a dozen viewers), the word is small caps aren't widely supported.
But how bad is it?
I've thought I could just [agonized screeching]fake them[/agonized screeching] with {font-size: 70%;} and all caps (I was half-happy upon seeing the numerical values for font-weight, thinking, oh fool, I could at least beef them up, no such luck in EPUBS and most browsers).

When I've wanted real small caps in an ebook, I've ended up by embedding fonts for that purpose. As you've noticed, using font-size just doesn't look right. I've also played with OTF fonts that have multiple glyph support but support for that is close to non-existent in ereaders.

Jellby · 06-01-2020, 07:38 AM

In my (limited) experience: no support at all.

Turtle91 · 06-01-2020, 10:57 AM

I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'support'...

Marvin does fine with small-caps, but I honestly don't know how it is doing it... Is it just capitalizing the lower cases and adjusting the font size, or is it using a specified symbol in the given font?? I am personally not that concerned over the technicalities other than - does it make the letters look like small-caps when I use the small-caps CSS, without having to resort to manually spanning all the text. Marvin just does it.

Hitch · 06-02-2020, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNSB

When I've wanted real small caps in an ebook, I've ended up by embedding fonts for that purpose. As you've noticed, using font-size just doesn't look right. I've also played with OTF fonts that have multiple glyph support but support for that is close to non-existent in ereaders.

Yes...but then you run into devices that don't support embedded fonts at all. And then you're hosed.

Hitch

stumped · 06-02-2020, 02:43 AM

most books I inspect are faking it by using font size 0.7em with capitalised text. that seems to work consistently across all my devices. and is good enough to fool me. ( maybe I am easily fooled , or maybe I have never seen the real thing ? )

i have noticed some small caps declarations but never checked to see if they do anything!

JSWolf · 06-02-2020, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumped

most books I inspect are faking it by using font size 0.7em with capitalised text. that seems to work consistently across all my devices. and is good enough to fool me. ( maybe I am easily fooled , or maybe I have never seen the real thing ? )

i have noticed some small caps declarations but never checked to see if they do anything!

Are you sure .7em is correct for fake small caps?

stumped · 06-02-2020, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Are you sure .7em is correct for fake small caps?

I have no idea what is " correct". But that is a structure I have seen in many books, where the body text following the ALL CAPS small caps bit is at 1em

Land_Outcast · 06-02-2020, 04:16 PM

0,7 em would be acceptable (considering em as the body of main text), if we could give the characters a bit more heft…
In my opinion 0,7 without the added weight calibration (normal is 400, bold 700… 550 would be it, I guess), a better fit would be 0,8.

Hitch · 06-02-2020, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumped

I have no idea what is " correct". But that is a structure I have seen in many books, where the body text following the ALL CAPS small caps bit is at 1em

I hate to say this, but yes, we've used it back in the mostly-KF7 days.

Hitch

JSWolf · 06-02-2020, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Land_Outcast

0,7 em would be acceptable (considering em as the body of main text), if we could give the characters a bit more heft…
In my opinion 0,7 without the added weight calibration (normal is 400, bold 700… 550 would be it, I guess), a better fit would be 0,8.

It has to be 0.7em in the CSS. 0,7em would cause the CSS to be ignored in RMSDK/ADE.

I've seem 0.8em used and that seems to work to me. 0.7 seems a tad small.

Turtle91 · 06-02-2020, 09:42 PM

I would recommend using emoticons so people know you are making a sarcastic joke...

unless you don't know that half the world uses a , to denote a decimal place and that I'm pretty sure epubcheck catches those kind of errors??

I suppose we could turn this post into one discussing the benefits of American English/imperial units vs. the inferior British and, the horror, metrics!!

DNSB · 06-02-2020, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitch

Yes...but then you run into devices that don't support embedded fonts at all. And then you're hosed.

Hitch

I should have made it clearer than I use real smallcaps in my personal collection. For other people, I use caps and a smaller font size.

Uncle Robin · 06-03-2020, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNSB

I should have made it clearer than I use real smallcaps in my personal collection. For other people, I use caps and a smaller font size.

Since one of my top 5 favourite characters in fiction is properly rendered as speaking in smallcaps, I was following this thread with interest, but it seems like the DEATH knell for my hopes.

Hitch · 06-03-2020, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNSB

I should have made it clearer than I use real smallcaps in my personal collection. For other people, I use caps and a smaller font size.

Ah-ha. I get it. ;-)

Hitch

05-31-2020, 09:36 PM	#1
Land_Outcast Enthusiast Posts: 43 Karma: 100000 Join Date: Jun 2018 Device: none	How widely supported are smallcaps? What it says on the cover, he. No, really, from what I've investigated (not directly, mind you, but I don't have access to a dozen viewers), the word is small caps aren't widely supported. But how bad is it? I've thought I could just [agonized screeching]fake them[/agonized screeching] with {font-size: 70%;} and all caps (I was half-happy upon seeing the numerical values for font-weight, thinking, oh fool, I could at least beef them up, no such luck in EPUBS and most browsers).

06-02-2020, 09:42 PM	#12
Turtle91 A Hairy Wizard Posts: 3,220 Karma: 19000635 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Charleston, SC today Device: iPhone 15/11/X/6/iPad 1,2,Air & Air Pro/Surface Pro/Kindle PW & Fire	I would recommend using emoticons so people know you are making a sarcastic joke... unless you don't know that half the world uses a , to denote a decimal place and that I'm pretty sure epubcheck catches those kind of errors?? I suppose we could turn this post into one discussing the benefits of American English/imperial units vs. the inferior British and, the horror, metrics!! Last edited by Turtle91; 06-02-2020 at 09:47 PM.

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06-01-2020, 07:38 AM	#3
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,536 Karma: 19000001 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	In my (limited) experience: no support at all.

06-01-2020, 10:57 AM	#4
Turtle91 A Hairy Wizard Posts: 3,220 Karma: 19000635 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Charleston, SC today Device: iPhone 15/11/X/6/iPad 1,2,Air & Air Pro/Surface Pro/Kindle PW & Fire	I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'support'... Marvin does fine with small-caps, but I honestly don't know how it is doing it... Is it just capitalizing the lower cases and adjusting the font size, or is it using a specified symbol in the given font?? I am personally not that concerned over the technicalities other than - does it make the letters look like small-caps when I use the small-caps CSS, without having to resort to manually spanning all the text. Marvin just does it.

06-02-2020, 02:43 AM	#6
stumped Wizard Posts: 3,305 Karma: 10259306 Join Date: May 2016 Device: kobo forma, Kobo Libra, Huawei media Tab, fire HD10, PW3 HDX8.9,	most books I inspect are faking it by using font size 0.7em with capitalised text. that seems to work consistently across all my devices. and is good enough to fool me. ( maybe I am easily fooled , or maybe I have never seen the real thing ? ) i have noticed some small caps declarations but never checked to see if they do anything!

06-02-2020, 04:16 PM	#9
Land_Outcast Enthusiast Posts: 43 Karma: 100000 Join Date: Jun 2018 Device: none	0,7 em would be acceptable (considering em as the body of main text), if we could give the characters a bit more heft… In my opinion 0,7 without the added weight calibration (normal is 400, bold 700… 550 would be it, I guess), a better fit would be 0,8.

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