Writing within writing: Italics vs Quotations

[E.M.DuBois]

So, I've noticed a tendency in my writing: whenever something is written within my stories, like a note or a sign, I sometimes put them in quotes and sometimes do italics.


I'm pretty sure this is due to ignorance of some English rule I was taught and long-since forgotten. Can anyone inform me what the proper instances are for them, or provide proper learning material (PDFs would be great)? I know things like book titles are italicized while chapters are in quotes, but I can't recall seeing anything about the a note or sign or whatnot.

[gmw]

I don't think there is a rule, or not that I've ever found.

I think context is relevant. A character might look up and read a sign that says "blah blah blah". Since the context indicates "says", it seems appropriate to use quotes, but in other circumstances I'm inclined to use italics. Some books, particularly for younger readers, even put very short items always in their own paragraph - see next.

In situations where it is a note or similar, presented as separate paragraphs, then indentation on both sides is fairly common. Or sometimes centring for very short items. The indentation makes any other font change optional. In paper publications such are often presented in special font. You can do the same in ebooks but care is needed. In one of my novels I used a fixed width font indented on both sides to represent the email messages passed back and forth. Be careful though, a little can go a long way with this sort of stuff.

[Catlady]

The Chicago Manual of Style rule is to use initial caps for short signs in running text. So, e.g., The door was marked Do Not Enter.

[E.M.DuBois]

Originally Posted by gmw

I think context is relevant. A character might look up and read a sign that says "blah blah blah". Since the context indicates "says", it seems appropriate to use quotes, but in other circumstances I'm inclined to use italics.

In situations where it is a note or similar, presented as separate paragraphs, then indentation on both sides is fairly common. Or sometimes centring for very short items.

I've used all of that advice, so at least I know I'm on the right track. Now I guess I need to just make sure whatever rules I set for myself, I'm consistent with (aka, my style.)

[E.M.DuBois]

Originally Posted by Catlady

The Chicago Manual of Style rule is to use initial caps for short signs in running text. So, e.g., The door was marked Do Not Enter.

That's very helpful!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Catlady

The Chicago Manual of Style rule is to use initial caps for short signs in running text. So, e.g., The door was marked Do Not Enter.

My personal preference would be to also use quotation marks. It is, after all, quoted text. I.e. The door was marked "Do Not Enter".

[gmw]

Originally Posted by HarryT

My personal preference would be to also use quotation marks. It is, after all, quoted text. I.e. The door was marked "Do Not Enter".

My reading of New Hart's Rules (The Oxford Style Guide) is that they would agree with you. As far as I can tell it has no explicit rule for "short signs in running text", and so the situation would fall back to the base guide about quotations and direct speech ("A direct quotation presents the exact words spoken on a particular occasion or written in a particular place."), although being the Oxford style, that would be 'Do Not Enter' (single-quotation marks). Edit: Being a direct quotation you would not alter the case, however a "Do Not Enter" sign is typically written as such (and so the CMOS may appear to have been applied in many cases where it has not).

However, my experience in fiction is that there is a lot of variation, hence my original post.

Originally Posted by HarryT

My personal preference would be to also use quotation marks. It is, after all, quoted text. I.e. The door was marked "Do Not Enter".

LOL, but now I wonder if we really want: The door was marked "Do Not Enter."

[gmw]

Originally Posted by maximus83

LOL, but now I wonder if we really want: The door was marked "Do Not Enter."

Good catch. As I understand it, in the US expect the punctuation to fall inside the quote regardless of whether it was part of the original text, in the UK it depends on the style you are following. New Hart's Rules, for example, merely notes the difference exists, noting that the US approach to this is "followed in much modern British fiction and journalism."

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by maximus83

LOL, but now I wonder if we really want: The door was marked "Do Not Enter."

Only in American English. In Britain English the most common convention is that punctuation only goes inside quotation marks if it's part of what's being quoted.

E.g.

She said "Is it raining?"

But

Did she say "It is raining"?

[gmw]

Just for fun, Harry, I believe this is correct:

Did she say "Is it raining?"


(According to New Hart's Rules: "When the quoted sentence ends with a question mark or exclamation mark, this should be placed within the closing quotation mark, with no other mark outside the quotation mark—only one mark of terminal punctuation is needed")

[E.M.DuBois]

Originally Posted by gmw

Just for fun, Harry, I believe this is correct:

Did she say "Is it raining?"


(According to New Hart's Rules: "When the quoted sentence ends with a question mark or exclamation mark, this should be placed within the closing quotation mark, with no other mark outside the quotation mark—only one mark of terminal punctuation is needed")

Would this be applied differently if it was quotes within quotes, like someone speaking? IE: He asked, "Did she say 'Is it raining'?"

[gmw]

Originally Posted by E.M.DuBois

Would this be applied differently if it was quotes within quotes, like someone speaking? IE: He asked, "Did she say 'Is it raining'?"

I interpret the rule as requiring:

He asked, "Did she say 'Is it raining?'"

That is, the first part of the rule says: "When the quoted sentence ends with a question mark or exclamation mark," (in this case "Is it raining?") "this should be placed within the closing quotation mark", and so that would talking of the inner quotes.

[pdurrant]

had had had had had had had

English is flexible enough that it's possible to make a nonsense of any rule.

[RobertDDL]

Originally Posted by gmw

Just for fun, Harry, I believe this is correct:

Did she say "Is it raining?"


(According to New Hart's Rules: "When the quoted sentence ends with a question mark or exclamation mark, this should be placed within the closing quotation mark, with no other mark outside the quotation mark—only one mark of terminal punctuation is needed")

But Harry's example was

Did she say "It is raining"?

But what if she exclaimed "It is raining!"?