Finding Books Using File Sharing

[alex_d]

There are lot of arguments for and against the liberalization of copyrights regarding music and movies, and they inspire much debate. They revolve around restricting access to culture or restricting access to things in which everyone can share limitlessly (ie, unlike physical objects, a single "shirt" can cover the backs of a billion). In the end, of course, the debate is about music and movies and it's inescapable that, in truth, giving people access to them doesn't really matter that much.

However, I feel that the issue is much more serious for books. Indeed, our society recognizes the importance of "book sharing" by funding free book sharing centers across the country (aka libraries), robbing the publishing industry of millions each year. I would support every effort to extend this to the digital realm.

For the time being, however, I have no qualms about accelerating the shift through a bit of civil disobedience.

There is, in fact, a surprising amount of ebooks available through file-sharing (so far i've collected 25GB). Most of these seem to be non-fiction (which is good), but many novels are also out there. A simple google search for "ebook torrents" reveals plenty of bittorrent links, which are usually sizable collections of books. If the moderators permit, this thread could be a discussion of good specific sites, torrents, and other links.


UPDATE: I'm collating a list here:

OK, so far the list of illegal sites is:
http://search.digitalreading.net/
mIRC (not a site)

non-DRMed Legal sites:
www.fictionwise.com
www.baen.com

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by alex_d

However, I feel that the issue is much more serious for books. Indeed, our society recognizes the importance of "book sharing" by funding free book sharing centers across the country (aka libraries), robbing the publishing industry of millions each year. I would support every effort to extend this to the digital realm.

One significant difference, however, between libraries and e-book "sharing" is that - at least in the UK (I'd be interested to know if it works differently in other countries) - libraries do pay authors for library loans. What happens in this country is that each year a "pot" of money is shared out to authors on the basis of the statistical percentage of library loans for their books. It's not a vast amount, but one SF author friend of mine (sadly no longer around) used to get a couple of thousand pounds a year that way.

[Stingo]

Originally Posted by alex_d

There is, in fact, a surprising amount of ebooks available through file-sharing (so far i've collected 25GB). Most of these seem to be non-fiction (which is good), but many novels are also out there. A simple google search for "ebook torrents" reveals plenty of bittorrent links, which are usually sizable collections of books. If the moderators permit, this thread could be a discussion of good specific sites, torrents, and other links.

Alex,

I admit that I've downloaded more than a couple of books for free because they are not available through the Connect Store. That said, however, this is an industry that will only grow if we buy. There are few enough e-book users out there. If we want innovation and support we need to pay for the content (at reasonable prices). So remember to put down the money and buy what is available.

[Bob Russell]

It's interesting all the false signals the e-book industry might be getting that make them think e-books are less popular than they are...
* People buying paper books after getting e-books from "non-commercial" sources
* People buying a paper book to scan it
* People reading a paper book because it's not available in e-book form
* When publishers ask questions when they offer free industry magazine subscriptions, they ask "Do you want this delivered in electronic form instead of paper?" I always say "No" even though I'm the biggest fan of electronic books and magazines. But the particular implmentation and format is unknown and likely to not be useful, so even if they do it right, I don't say I want it.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Stingo

If we want innovation and support we need to pay for the content (at reasonable prices). So remember to put down the money and buy what is available.

I agree completely; that's why I think it's so important to support the few publishers, such as Baen, who are doing "the right thing" and publishing books in open formats at sensible prices. I'd encourage anyone who likes SF and Fantasy to support Baen by buying their monthly subscription service, which gets you between about 4 and 7 books for US$15. I may occasionally moan about some of the wierd stuff Baen publish, but there's no doubt at all that they are an example to the rest of the publishing world when it comes to what they are doing with e-books.

[VillageReader]

Originally Posted by HarryT

One significant difference, however, between libraries and e-book "sharing" is that - at least in the UK (I'd be interested to know if it works differently in other countries) - libraries do pay authors for library loans. What happens in this country is that each year a "pot" of money is shared out to authors on the basis of the statistical percentage of library loans for their books. It's not a vast amount, but one SF author friend of mine (sadly no longer around) used to get a couple of thousand pounds a year that way.

In the US the way it works depends on the publishing company. I think in some cases the books aren't owned by the libraries but rented (this can be particularly true for very popular authors where you need a large number of books in the first few months after publication, but don't want the same inventory a year later). Other publishers have special library editions that cost a library more than if you were buying the same book in a bookstore.

[VillageReader]

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

It's interesting all the false signals the e-book industry might be getting that make them think e-books are less popular than they are...
* People buying paper books after getting e-books from "non-commercial" sources
* People buying a paper book to scan it
* People reading a paper book because it's not available in e-book form
* When publishers ask questions when they offer free industry magazine subscriptions, they ask "Do you want this delivered in electronic form instead of paper?" I always say "No" even though I'm the biggest fan of electronic books and magazines. But the particular implmentation and format is unknown and likely to not be useful, so even if they do it right, I don't say I want it.

I had a somewhat different experience recently. At one time I think Technology Review published their digital version as a .pdf. I tried for quite a while to find format information on their site. No success. So I signed up for their free trial issue with the rest of the subscription to follow and be billed. Either they changed, or my memory was bad, as the format was Zinio - incompatible with the Iliad. When they e-mailed a follow up, I responded that I would be cancelling the subscription, along with the reason.

I hope that makes a bit stronger case for getting the format issue right - knowing opportunities to sell are out there and losing the sale by 'bad' technology decisions.

Let's hope the publishing industry finally 'gets' it. My Fictionwise bookshelf is now up to 4 pages of multiformat books. Getting rid of DRM only opens up my choices - and I'd hazard a guess those on this forum are the volume purchasers that publishers might consider listening to.

[Stepping off the soap box to give someone else a turn]

[HarryT]

I suspect that DRM must put a lot of people off buying eBooks. I'm a bit of a "gadget freak" and am rarely using the same eBook reader now that I was a year ago. I would be highly dubious about buying commercial eBooks which "locked me in" to a specific device. That's why the only commercial eBooks I buy are the open-format ones from Baen. I know that whatever device I'm using next year, my RTF, HTML, etc, books are going to either work fine on it directly, or be easily converted to work on it.

[sic]

"non commercial" sources are bad for the publishers but they will boost device sales.
when someone buys an iPod and Apple says that you can put 10 thousand songs on it, do you think the guy will buy those songs for one dollar each? Same thing here

Personally I'm OK with compensating the authors but I'd rather not have 90% of the money going to publishers.

Also, please allow me to suggest the http://search.digitalreading.net site where you can search for ebook "warez".
The site uses Google CustomSearch which basically means that it uses google search but limited to a list of websites only.
You can sign up as a contributor and add sites to the list.
I've currently added piratebay and rapdishares, they're good sources for torrents, you're welcome to add more.

Sic.

[VillageReader]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I suspect that DRM must put a lot of people off buying eBooks. I'm a bit of a "gadget freak" and am rarely using the same eBook reader now that I was a year ago. I would be highly dubious about buying commercial eBooks which "locked me in" to a specific device. That's why the only commercial eBooks I buy are the open-format ones from Baen. I know that whatever device I'm using next year, my RTF, HTML, etc, books are going to either work fine on it directly, or be easily converted to work on it.

If you aren't familiar with it, you should check the multiformat (nonDRM) books out at fictionwise.com.

[ktb1381]

I hear MIRC is a good way to find ebooks...., in many cases when they are not available through any other means.

If I ever used such a source I would make sure to buy the books in paper, and I advise all to do the same.

[alex_d]

"That said, however, this is an industry that will only grow if we buy...So remember to put down the money and buy what is available."

I disagree. It'll grow if we buy hardware, not books. Buying too many ebooks just might convince media conglomerates like Sony that they don't need to even allow us to read our own unencrypted files. Imagine if the Librie's draconian world had been a success! Also, I strongly disagree with your definition of "reasonable prices."

"What happens in this country is that each year a "pot" of money is shared out to authors on the basis of the statistical percentage of library loans for their books."

That sounds like an excellent scheme! That is how the authors should make all of their money, and I think they would be very happy (provided we pay them better than a few grand a year, of course). Even if we guarantee that we end up giving authors twice as much money as publishers do now, the public will still get 100 times a better deal having limitless access to books.

"Personally I'm OK with compensating the authors but I'd rather not have 90% of the money going to publishers."

Exactly! Publishers of books and music collude and pricegouge owing to their position, power, and the nature of what they're selling. We owe nothing to them. I feel authors and musicians ought to be paid, but it's incredibly ironic how some feel that saying creators ought to be compensated is a defense of the current system. It is, in fact, the second-best argument against it.

Honestly, it's not even necessary to turn to communism for effective reform. (Compensating authors directly according to popularity is a form of communism.) Rather, we just have to break up the publisher monopolies. Well-functioning capitalism relies on ruthless competition among many competitors. Now, we have the benefits of neither of the two worlds. The situation is much better described as fudalism.


I'm collating the links at the top.

[Stingo]

Alex,

I share your stand against encryption but I'm not sure I agree with you logic. Devices such as ours are not expected to sell on the volume of an ipod. The market is simply not seen as big. Moreover once you buy your unit, you will not need another for years. They are manufactured in the expectation of making money on the media. Although it would be nice to change the way the world of copyright works, for the immediate future, if you want best sellers, and you want to pay for them to encourage more media, you are stuck with the publishing system as it exists.

You say that you don't agree with my definition of "reasonable prices". Since I didn't define the term I'm not sure what you mean unless you don't consider any price reasonable. Even on the connect store there are some items for 1-8 dollars which I think most people would consider reasonable. You may not owe them anything, you may not like them making their vig but for the moment, they are the ones that will make a reader2 and reader3 if they think they can make money.

The current system sucks. But don't expect that governments to change how copyrights operate. The publishers have the lobbyists. The artists generally can't agree with one another on what to do or how to change the system so they are not a credible political threat. Until things do change thanks to efforts such as Baen etc... your choice is to create a market for bigger and better devices such as ours or to help smother this infant technology by not feeding the beast.

Finally, in most communist governments, as they exist in real life, the government employer owns the work and the artist cannot market, publish it or sell it without government approval. I hardly consider that an effective reform.

[RWood]

Alex said:
Compensating authors directly according to popularity is a form of communism.

Let me see if I understand you correctly. More popular authors are the ones that sell the most and therefore it is Communistic to pay them more? When I last studied that system of government it seemed that writers were paid a certain amount. If they wrote correctly and sold they were allowed to keep writing, if not, other positions were found for them.

To reward one's efforts by the market reaction is a capitalistic method.

[jæd]

Originally Posted by alex_d

Exactly! Publishers of books and music collude and pricegouge owing to their position, power, and the nature of what they're selling. We owe nothing to them.

Apart from their role in discovering artists and authors and presenting them to the public...? I'm still happy to pay them for doing this... One quick look at the Internet shows that talent is still rare, and expecting everyone to trawl through the dross isn't very workable...

Though of course they should be paid at decent rate rather than the current silly sums for Sony's ebooks