iRex - Misleading Advertising

Riocaz · 03-01-2007, 06:56 PM

Given Karel's latest statements in the iRex forum.

I want to point out to everyone here that under European law there is a good chance that iRex has acted illegally if they are unable to matchthe promises laid out in their technical specifications.

Specifically:

The technical specifications of the iLiad at the time I purchased my iLiad were >21 hours batterylife. (To use their words: The operating time of the rechargable battery is more than a week without recharging) Which is currently nowhere near correct. And according to Karel the new 2007 model will require a larger battery to even get 15 hours.

European law dictates that is is against the law to give misleading advertisements for goods or services.

For people in the UK you will want to discuss this matter with the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) who deal with UK breaches of this law and are part of the European Advertising Standards Alliance and can refer cases to them where a dispute crosses national boundaries.

For those outside the UK but within Europe (or Canada, Australia, Newzealand or Brazil who are also members of the EASA) you should contact you body who deals with your country first:

Links:

EASA:
http://www.easa-alliance.org/

EASA members:
http://www.easa-alliance.org/about_e...a_members.html

UK ASA:
http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/

The Dutch Advertising Code:
http://www.reclamecode.nl/bijlagen/d...ising_code.pdf

The iLiad Product Specs & eFlyBook factsheet:

NatCh · 03-01-2007, 07:41 PM

I think I have some small inkling of the frustration you're looking at, certainly I've seen enough of the discussion that I ought to have at least an idea, but before anyone actually starts down this path, perhaps a moment to consider where it might end up is in order.

Best case scenario, it'd take up a lot of time, effort, and other resources that wouldn't get put toward further work on the iLiad, delaying its future development.

However, I suspect that the most likely place it would end up (considering the start-up/spin-off that iRex presently is) would be with iRex shutting down due to legal deadweight and/or judgments against them. Which would leave the iLiad still no closer to where it was supposed to be in the first place, and absolutely no prospect of it getting any further at all, let alone all the way there.

I'm not necessarily trying to dissuade you, nor to downplay what I agree is a genuine grievance. And I know it's easy for me to sit here with my Sony Reader next to me and be all detached and clinical about the matter, but that's genuinely not what I'm meaning to do. I just think that the point ought to be considered before this gets too far along.

Riocaz · 03-01-2007, 07:46 PM

Your best case scenario:

Karel has already stated that there is a new version of the iLiad due for release in q2 (That's any time now). The ER0100 is essentially dead.

How many companies continue development for a redundant product?

Frankly while I see your point. I have this irrational objection to being lied to. Which as far as I can see from Karel's statement is exactly what iRex have done.

Would I rather see iRex fold than continue development? Of course not. But they should take responsibility for their actions. They still havn't had the decency to tell us this via official channels, it's been a throwaway comment in a discussion about their website.

Oh and btw, lets not forget that the specs for the eflybook also have the same more than 3 hours a day statement. Have iRex told their only B2B customer that they can't actually match the specs they have been selling their product on?

Vash · 03-01-2007, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riocaz

Your best case scenario:

Karel has already stated that there is a new version of the iLiad due for release. The ER0100 is essentially dead.

How many companies continue development for a redundant product?

Frankly while I see your point. I have this irrational objection to being lied to. Which as far as I can see from Karel's statement is exactly what iRex have done.

Would I rather see iRex fold than continue development? Of course not. But they should take responsibility for their actions. They still havn't had the decency to tell us this via official channels, it's been a throwaway comment in a discussion about their website.

Oh and btw, lets not forget that the specs for the eflybook also have the same more than 3 hours a day statement.

I would just call for a refund stating exactly your reason, being lied to is one of the most grevious errors a company can make. Especially in this age of the internet soapbox. A company's PR value can go down in flames from the cry of "I got screwed and so did you!"

Vash

Riocaz · 03-01-2007, 08:00 PM

I find that being able to quote the relevant laws/standards helps when arguing for a refund. I fully intend to speak to iRex tomorrow morning. But I feel it only fair to share the fruit of my investigations now so others will have it at their fingertips when doing the same.

NatCh · 03-01-2007, 08:04 PM

You're right, I s'pose I was subconsciously lumping the dev on the '07 model' in with the '06' one.

I don't disagree with your estimation of what's happened, Riocaz, I just thought it ought to be pointed out that this could be a very effective way to destroy iRex's viability as a company sometime before it got to that point, that's all.

Riocaz · 03-01-2007, 08:12 PM

I would care more if they held their hands up and said "we were wrong" but they haven't.

joblack · 03-01-2007, 08:16 PM

Who cares about the battery life ... do you really read over 10 hours without any power connection?

NatCh · 03-01-2007, 08:20 PM

Fair enough, Riocaz. I think I've accomplished what I meant to.

Frankly, if they don't ... adjust their attitude (shall we say?) on this sort of thing, the company's days are probably numbered regardless.

nekokami · 03-02-2007, 12:27 AM

They may have been thinking of a "work week," i.e. 5 days x3 hours per day, rather than a 7 day week. In that case if they can get the unit to work for 15 hours, they may have a defense. Possibly they could offer a settlement of the rumored higher capacity battery free of charge for all current owners, if that actually reaches their goal.

It's really a shame they didn't figure out they would need a suspend/resume mode before releasing the first model. I still can't figure out how they missed that. If that feature is one of the things in the "2007 model," they should probably offer a low-cost or no-cost swap for old units. It would generate a lot of good will.

ali · 03-02-2007, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riocaz

I find that being able to quote the relevant laws/standards helps when arguing for a refund. I fully intend to speak to iRex tomorrow morning. But I feel it only fair to share the fruit of my investigations now so others will have it at their fingertips when doing the same.

Cool, please do that and keep us informed!

Btw, how is it that nobody here is a lawyer, or a lawyer's {brother|sister|mother|friend|landlord|babysitter} ? All I have is two relatives studying law, and neither was sure which law applies here.

narve · 03-02-2007, 02:52 AM

Before we start screaming laws at iRex, I think us disappointed customers should agree on what we want. I don't want a refund -- I still want to keep my iLiad.

If we can reach an agreement with iRex that gives us a really substantial rebate on the next model, I would be happy with that. Swapping the old one for the new one would be my best case.

In fact my major fear is that support for the old product is discontinued.

narve · 03-02-2007, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali

Cool, please do that and keep us informed!

Btw, how is it that nobody here is a lawyer, or a lawyer's {brother|sister|mother|friend|landlord|babysitter} ? All I have is two relatives studying law, and neither was sure which law applies here.

I have lawyer friends, but this is highly specialized and probably not something they know. In fact I find that asking lawyer friends non-generic questions usually leads me nowhere -- they always have to check up on the laws, and that is usually too much of a hassle unless it is important.

Riocaz · 03-02-2007, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joblack

Who cares about the battery life ... do you really read over 10 hours without any power connection?

No I admit that I don't because I know the iLiad currently has this limitation. But the point is that one of the reasons I brought the iLiad was that it was reported to have enough battery life to go an entire work week, and a weekend without me needing to recharge it.

As I am forgetful this is a very good thing.

Others wanted the iLiad for work and need it to last their work-day (+ travel) which can easily be more than 10 hours (Hell it is for me now, and I don't use the iLiad for work yet. But wish to do so in the future for reference works).

vvoi666 · 03-02-2007, 03:43 AM

in my opinion there are only two options for irex (in case they release a new hardware before the 'old' device works as advertised):

a) a full refund for iliad 1.0 user on return of the device
or
b) a free exchange of the 'old' iliad for the new model

this case will be a field day for any lawyer (my brother is a lawyer and he looked into this).

what do we have:

a) a device that should have been a fully functional 'consumer device' by september 2006 - they didn't keep that promise
b) a device that doesn't have one single spec that works as advertised in early 2006

i know that some guys over at engadget.com are following the development of the iliad very closely. if there really will be a 'v1.1' or 'v2.0' of the iliad with revised hardware (i'm almost certain that besides the new battery, they will include a 'suspend to whatever' with the new hardware for increased startup times and maybe a faster processor), they won't be very happy, since they have one or two iliads in the office and really like it. that will be bad publicity that irex doesn't need at this point.

but due to their complete lack of communication skills, i doubt that we will here from irex about the future of our 'old' iliads. i mean they promised to post some kind of roadmap for the software like 5 weeks ago. has anybody seen that?

i'm pissed, i'm unforgiving and i have a lawyer for a brother

i will wait for an official announcement from irex reg. new hardware and then i will demand one of the options from the top of my post or i will go after them.

now i will have a tea and try not to go on a killing spree

03-01-2007, 07:46 PM	#3
Riocaz Fulfilled but not by iRex Posts: 932 Karma: 286846 Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Device: Far too many	Your best case scenario: Karel has already stated that there is a new version of the iLiad due for release in q2 (That's any time now). The ER0100 is essentially dead. How many companies continue development for a redundant product? Frankly while I see your point. I have this irrational objection to being lied to. Which as far as I can see from Karel's statement is exactly what iRex have done. Would I rather see iRex fold than continue development? Of course not. But they should take responsibility for their actions. They still havn't had the decency to tell us this via official channels, it's been a throwaway comment in a discussion about their website. Oh and btw, lets not forget that the specs for the eflybook also have the same more than 3 hours a day statement. Have iRex told their only B2B customer that they can't actually match the specs they have been selling their product on? Last edited by Riocaz; 03-01-2007 at 08:14 PM.

03-02-2007, 02:52 AM	#12
narve iLiad fan Posts: 210 Karma: 3864 Join Date: Oct 2006 Device: iRex iLiad	What do you (we) want? Before we start screaming laws at iRex, I think us disappointed customers should agree on what we want. I don't want a refund -- I still want to keep my iLiad. If we can reach an agreement with iRex that gives us a really substantial rebate on the next model, I would be happy with that. Swapping the old one for the new one would be my best case. In fact my major fear is that support for the old product is discontinued.

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03-01-2007, 07:41 PM	#2
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	I think I have some small inkling of the frustration you're looking at, certainly I've seen enough of the discussion that I ought to have at least an idea, but before anyone actually starts down this path, perhaps a moment to consider where it might end up is in order. Best case scenario, it'd take up a lot of time, effort, and other resources that wouldn't get put toward further work on the iLiad, delaying its future development. However, I suspect that the most likely place it would end up (considering the start-up/spin-off that iRex presently is) would be with iRex shutting down due to legal deadweight and/or judgments against them. Which would leave the iLiad still no closer to where it was supposed to be in the first place, and absolutely no prospect of it getting any further at all, let alone all the way there. I'm not necessarily trying to dissuade you, nor to downplay what I agree is a genuine grievance. And I know it's easy for me to sit here with my Sony Reader next to me and be all detached and clinical about the matter, but that's genuinely not what I'm meaning to do. I just think that the point ought to be considered before this gets too far along.

03-01-2007, 08:00 PM	#5
Riocaz Fulfilled but not by iRex Posts: 932 Karma: 286846 Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Device: Far too many	I find that being able to quote the relevant laws/standards helps when arguing for a refund. I fully intend to speak to iRex tomorrow morning. But I feel it only fair to share the fruit of my investigations now so others will have it at their fingertips when doing the same.

03-01-2007, 08:04 PM	#6
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	You're right, I s'pose I was subconsciously lumping the dev on the '07 model' in with the '06' one. I don't disagree with your estimation of what's happened, Riocaz, I just thought it ought to be pointed out that this could be a very effective way to destroy iRex's viability as a company sometime before it got to that point, that's all.

03-01-2007, 08:12 PM	#7
Riocaz Fulfilled but not by iRex Posts: 932 Karma: 286846 Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Device: Far too many	I would care more if they held their hands up and said "we were wrong" but they haven't.

03-01-2007, 08:16 PM	#8
joblack Wizard Posts: 1,746 Karma: 4382688 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somewhere on earth Device: Onyx Boox Tab X	Who cares about the battery life ... do you really read over 10 hours without any power connection?

03-01-2007, 08:20 PM	#9
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Fair enough, Riocaz. I think I've accomplished what I meant to. Frankly, if they don't ... adjust their attitude (shall we say?) on this sort of thing, the company's days are probably numbered regardless.

03-02-2007, 12:27 AM	#10
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	They may have been thinking of a "work week," i.e. 5 days x3 hours per day, rather than a 7 day week. In that case if they can get the unit to work for 15 hours, they may have a defense. Possibly they could offer a settlement of the rumored higher capacity battery free of charge for all current owners, if that actually reaches their goal. It's really a shame they didn't figure out they would need a suspend/resume mode before releasing the first model. I still can't figure out how they missed that. If that feature is one of the things in the "2007 model," they should probably offer a low-cost or no-cost swap for old units. It would generate a lot of good will.

03-02-2007, 03:43 AM	#15
vvoi666 Zealot Posts: 100 Karma: 29 Join Date: May 2006	in my opinion there are only two options for irex (in case they release a new hardware before the 'old' device works as advertised): a) a full refund for iliad 1.0 user on return of the device or b) a free exchange of the 'old' iliad for the new model this case will be a field day for any lawyer (my brother is a lawyer and he looked into this). what do we have: a) a device that should have been a fully functional 'consumer device' by september 2006 - they didn't keep that promise b) a device that doesn't have one single spec that works as advertised in early 2006 i know that some guys over at engadget.com are following the development of the iliad very closely. if there really will be a 'v1.1' or 'v2.0' of the iliad with revised hardware (i'm almost certain that besides the new battery, they will include a 'suspend to whatever' with the new hardware for increased startup times and maybe a faster processor), they won't be very happy, since they have one or two iliads in the office and really like it. that will be bad publicity that irex doesn't need at this point. but due to their complete lack of communication skills, i doubt that we will here from irex about the future of our 'old' iliads. i mean they promised to post some kind of roadmap for the software like 5 weeks ago. has anybody seen that? i'm pissed, i'm unforgiving and i have a lawyer for a brother i will wait for an official announcement from irex reg. new hardware and then i will demand one of the options from the top of my post or i will go after them. now i will have a tea and try not to go on a killing spree

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