New York times about Kindle 2

Kris777 · 02-09-2009, 10:51 PM

Amazon in Big Push for New Kindle Model
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/te...ndle.html?_r=1

...
Amazon generally charges $9.99 for the digital versions of best sellers, although many publishers still sell the digital content to Amazon for the same price that they sell physical books. That means that for now, Amazon is taking a loss or making a small margin on the sale of some e-books.
...

Interesting. I didn't know that Amazon is taking a loss on the sale of some e-books.

Gideon · 02-09-2009, 11:02 PM

Yeah, but eventually the eBook model will take off and Amazon will go "Okay, we're not paying that anymore but if you want your content in the store you'll sell it to us cheaper than that."

And thus we all win. Except the publishers. And... screw them.

(simplistic, I know, but... eh. Publishers complaining about the business model changing doesn't win you any friends. We ALL have to adapt to the age we're now in, and for most of us that means forking over a lot of cash and taking risks. They should be no different. As far as I'm concerned they're in the same boat as other media companies - adapt or die.)

pilotbob · 02-09-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gideon

And thus we all win. Except the publishers. And... screw them.

I'm not sure why the publishers would loose here. Basically why should they get the same amount of money for a copy of a file that they get for a physical book? Once the provide the file to Amazon they are done. I'm assuming here that amazon is storing the books and applying the DRM.

BOb

Ervserver · 02-09-2009, 11:13 PM

wonder how the publishers feel about libraries lending out e-books

Gideon · 02-09-2009, 11:16 PM

Well, it screws them in the short term. But I doubt they'll take kindly to being forced into that position as they'll take a hit until they streamline their industry for the new market. Right now it probably does cost them quite a bit to create an eBook. But it shouldn't. There are no doubt more things involved than even I imagine, but that being said given they are producing a 'digital copy' they should be able to adapt as long as they aren't complete morons about it.

Gideon · 02-09-2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ervserver

wonder how the publishers feel about libraries lending out e-books

That's probably a bigger problem. Unless they make them finite "one copy out at a time" or whatever. Mirroring real books.

Kris777 · 02-09-2009, 11:31 PM

It is very simple. Publishers want to get the same profit from one eBook copy that they have from paper book. It is the reason why European publishers waiting for the law that will tell that cost of eBook must be the same as paper book. After it they will start to convert books to digitital format.

Boston · 02-09-2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris777

It is very simple. Publishers want to get the same profit from one eBook copy that they have from paper book. It is the reason why European publishers waiting for the law that will tell that cost of eBook must be the same as paper book. After it they will start to convert books to digitital format.

The profit model isn't the same. Publishers say that its the used book market that is eating into their sales. It's grown exponentially with the ease of finding/buying a used book on the Internet.

Libraries aside (and I would guess the impact is currently negligible), the current DRM model says they make money on every ebook sale. I could better justify paying pbook prices if I could transfer the license when I was done reading.

bwaldron · 02-09-2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris777

It is very simple. Publishers want to get the same profit from one eBook copy that they have from paper book

Well, sure they do.

But ridiculous pricing, combined with their DRM schemes, drive many people to the darknet where the profit margin is quite a bit smaller for the publisher.

They'll learn at some point. Smart publishers like Baen already have.

S.Canton · 02-09-2009, 11:46 PM

I'm excited to see the Kindle 2 officially announced, and I agree that companies need to get with the times and adapt. Publishers may be able to charge full price for their books right now, but as eBook adoption rate increased, I can't see them being able to continue that trend; they'll simply have no way to justify it, and Amazon will have more bargaining power.

Kris777 · 02-10-2009, 01:31 AM

If publisher sell 1 paper book on Amazon.com for $9.99 what profit they make? And what profit they make if they sell the electronic version of the same book for the same price?
I guess the profit from electronic version must be higher (no printing, no paper cost, no storage space etc).

Wetdogeared · 02-10-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gideon

That's probably a bigger problem. Unless they make them finite "one copy out at a time" or whatever. Mirroring real books.

Libraries usually have a finite number of copies of eBooks. The library I borrow from usually has between 2 to 5 copies, and 2 formats (Mobi and PDF), and will only lend out that limit at a time. The books I borrow are PDF's in ADE DRM and expire in 3 weeks.

You can return them early to the library and they will release your copy to another borrower, and your copy is nixed. You can put a hold on an ebook if the max copies are currently lent out, and we are notified when one is returned early or has expired.

The problem I have is that, a lot of the time, the books I want to borrow have all been lent out in the format I want.

greenery · 02-18-2009, 09:51 AM

If I may jump in here -- the discussion about publisher profits on ebooks needs to also take author royalties into consideration. The author gets only a small fraction of the cover price of the first sale of a book. As the industry changes and adapts to new technology, that will have to be revisited. Traditionally the publisher gets the lion's share because they bear the brunt of the costs (production, materials, transport). Once those things go away -- and eventually they all will in favor of electronic formats -- there's an argument for authors getting a bigger percentage.

Publishers claiming they need to charge the same amount for an ebook -- that's what they would LIKE to be able to do, of course. The more profit, the better. They'd like to charge full cover price for every book, no matter who sells it. We all know this doesn't happen.

02-09-2009, 10:51 PM	#1
Kris777 Banned Posts: 1,767 Karma: 2520493 Join Date: Oct 2008 Device: Nexus 7, jetBook-Lite, jetBook mini, Toshiba Thrive, JETBOOK COLOR	New York times about Kindle 2 Amazon in Big Push for New Kindle Model http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/te...ndle.html?_r=1 ... Amazon generally charges $9.99 for the digital versions of best sellers, although many publishers still sell the digital content to Amazon for the same price that they sell physical books. That means that for now, Amazon is taking a loss or making a small margin on the sale of some e-books. ... Interesting. I didn't know that Amazon is taking a loss on the sale of some e-books.

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02-09-2009, 11:02 PM	#2
Gideon Wearer of Pants Posts: 1,050 Karma: 7634 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norman, OK Device: Amazon Kindle DX / iPhone	Yeah, but eventually the eBook model will take off and Amazon will go "Okay, we're not paying that anymore but if you want your content in the store you'll sell it to us cheaper than that." And thus we all win. Except the publishers. And... screw them. (simplistic, I know, but... eh. Publishers complaining about the business model changing doesn't win you any friends. We ALL have to adapt to the age we're now in, and for most of us that means forking over a lot of cash and taking risks. They should be no different. As far as I'm concerned they're in the same boat as other media companies - adapt or die.)

02-09-2009, 11:13 PM	#4
Ervserver Wizard Posts: 2,624 Karma: 1008294 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Iowa, USA Device: Nook Simple Touch	wonder how the publishers feel about libraries lending out e-books

02-09-2009, 11:16 PM	#5
Gideon Wearer of Pants Posts: 1,050 Karma: 7634 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norman, OK Device: Amazon Kindle DX / iPhone	Well, it screws them in the short term. But I doubt they'll take kindly to being forced into that position as they'll take a hit until they streamline their industry for the new market. Right now it probably does cost them quite a bit to create an eBook. But it shouldn't. There are no doubt more things involved than even I imagine, but that being said given they are producing a 'digital copy' they should be able to adapt as long as they aren't complete morons about it.

02-09-2009, 11:31 PM	#7
Kris777 Banned Posts: 1,767 Karma: 2520493 Join Date: Oct 2008 Device: Nexus 7, jetBook-Lite, jetBook mini, Toshiba Thrive, JETBOOK COLOR	It is very simple. Publishers want to get the same profit from one eBook copy that they have from paper book. It is the reason why European publishers waiting for the law that will tell that cost of eBook must be the same as paper book. After it they will start to convert books to digitital format.

02-09-2009, 11:46 PM	#10
S.Canton Groupie Posts: 174 Karma: 12 Join Date: Jan 2009 Device: Kindle 2	I'm excited to see the Kindle 2 officially announced, and I agree that companies need to get with the times and adapt. Publishers may be able to charge full price for their books right now, but as eBook adoption rate increased, I can't see them being able to continue that trend; they'll simply have no way to justify it, and Amazon will have more bargaining power.

02-10-2009, 01:31 AM	#11
Kris777 Banned Posts: 1,767 Karma: 2520493 Join Date: Oct 2008 Device: Nexus 7, jetBook-Lite, jetBook mini, Toshiba Thrive, JETBOOK COLOR	If publisher sell 1 paper book on Amazon.com for $9.99 what profit they make? And what profit they make if they sell the electronic version of the same book for the same price? I guess the profit from electronic version must be higher (no printing, no paper cost, no storage space etc).

02-18-2009, 09:51 AM	#13
greenery new to kindle2 Posts: 3 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kindle 2	If I may jump in here -- the discussion about publisher profits on ebooks needs to also take author royalties into consideration. The author gets only a small fraction of the cover price of the first sale of a book. As the industry changes and adapts to new technology, that will have to be revisited. Traditionally the publisher gets the lion's share because they bear the brunt of the costs (production, materials, transport). Once those things go away -- and eventually they all will in favor of electronic formats -- there's an argument for authors getting a bigger percentage. Publishers claiming they need to charge the same amount for an ebook -- that's what they would LIKE to be able to do, of course. The more profit, the better. They'd like to charge full cover price for every book, no matter who sells it. We all know this doesn't happen.

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