du Maurier, George? Or Maurier, George du?

AlexBell · 07-20-2019, 03:33 AM

In a week or so I expect to upload a book by George du Maurier to the MobileRead library.

Should I enter the author's name as du Maurier, George; or as Maurier, George du?

If the answer is in the wiki then please accept my apologies, and point it out to me. If the answer is not in the wiki could it be put there?

lumpynose · 07-20-2019, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexBell

In a week or so I expect to upload an book by George du Maurier to the MobileRead library.

Should I enter the author's name as du Maurier, George; or as Maurier, George du?

If the answer is in the wiki then please accept my apologies, and point it out to me. If the answer is not in the wiki could it be put there?

I'm no expert in this but I think it should be sorted under Maurier but know that the du is part of the last name. Which doesn't really answer your question. I'm guessing that the Dutch names with van and German names with von are similar so maybe you could do a google search on "names with van, von, and du" (and maybe de la for Spanish) and see what they say about them.

Jellby · 07-20-2019, 08:08 AM

I'd prefer "Maurier, George du", but it doesn't really matter because the guidelines are not being enforced and they've been broken too many times.

ETA: We already have a couple of "Du Maurier, George".

dwig · 07-20-2019, 02:25 PM

Project Gutenberg uses "Du Maurier, George" and Wikipedia consistently uses "du Maurier" when not including his first name. I use "du Maurier, George" for the author_sort in calibre.

Jellby · 07-22-2019, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwig

and Wikipedia consistently uses "du Maurier" when not including his first name.

At least in Spanish, one thing is the sorting order (Maurier, George du), and a different one is how to use the surname alone (Du Maurier). Of course, that doesn't necessarily apply to other languages/traditions.

GrannyGrump · 07-22-2019, 06:34 AM

Personally, I would enter the thread title as du Maurier, George: blah blah blah

disclaimer: This is my personal preference, I don't know if it is good advice or not...
I would prefer this because that will affect where the name will appear in the Ebook Index (the master book list), and I do believe people would search for Du Maurier rather than for Maurier. Well, anyway, folks who have a similar mindset to my own.

Am I the only one who uses the Ebook Index to search for titles or authors?

AlexBell · 07-22-2019, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

I'd prefer "Maurier, George du", but it doesn't really matter because the guidelines are not being enforced and they've been broken too many times.

ETA: We already have a couple of "Du Maurier, George".

When I searched the book list, before I started work on Peter Ibbetson, I searched for du Maurier, and couldn't find any books by du Maurier. I searched for Du Maurier tonight and found The Martian. Could you tell me please what the other book was that you found, Jellby? And could you tell me where I can find the guidelines you mention?

For what it is worth the State Library system in Tasmania sorts books by Daphne du Maurier as Maurier, Daphne du. They don't have any books by George du Maurier.

lumpynose · 07-22-2019, 05:23 PM

Just for the sake of stirring the pot and perhaps adding to the confusion, sometimes these last name prefixes get joined to the last name and become part of it. E.g., Vanderbilt. When I did the google search I suggested above a wikipedia page had examples and one of the items in its list was Dupont, so apparently originally it was du Pont.

Tarana · 07-22-2019, 07:41 PM

Old school alphabetizing considered articles in names to be separate words. Thus, Daphne du Maurier would be alphabetized Maurier, Daphne du. This is the style taken by Calibre. The new alphabetizing scheme that seemed to become commonly accepted in this century is to consider the article part of the name, so it is not separated in alphabetizing. Thus, du Maurier, Daphne would be correct. So, neither is wrong, just pick what pattern you want and stick with it. That means all those vons are in V now. Just remember though, that most established places, like libraries, are probably going to stick with the old school forever.

Note: took a couple of courses on library science way back when, so it was of interest to me.

GrannyGrump · 07-22-2019, 11:25 PM

And I must rant: What. Is. The. Deal? --- the preference for First Name sorting? Several sites I visit use this *horrible* option as default. Grrrrr!

Tarana · 07-23-2019, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

And I must rant: What. Is. The. Deal? --- the preference for First Name sorting? Several sites I visit use this *horrible* option as default. Grrrrr!

It's been around since at least 1992 (pre-Netscape).

Jellby · 07-23-2019, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexBell

When I searched the book list, before I started work on Peter Ibbetson, I searched for du Maurier, and couldn't find any books by du Maurier. I searched for Du Maurier tonight and found The Martian. Could you tell me please what the other book was that you found, Jellby? And could you tell me where I can find the guidelines you mention?

I just searched for "Maurier" in the whole E-book uploads forum, found:

Du Maurier, George: The Martian. V1. 16 Nov. 2014 (ePub and Kindle)
Du Maurier, George: Trilby, v1.2, 10 Sept 2007. (BBeB/LRF, Kindle and IMP)

The guidelines are here.

lumpynose · 07-23-2019, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

And I must rant: What. Is. The. Deal? --- the preference for First Name sorting? Several sites I visit use this *horrible* option as default. Grrrrr!

Can you give some links? (My barf bag is nearby.) I've never seen this except on the Kindle.

AlexBell · 07-24-2019, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

I just searched for "Maurier" in the whole E-book uploads forum, found:

Du Maurier, George: The Martian. V1. 16 Nov. 2014 (ePub and Kindle)
Du Maurier, George: Trilby, v1.2, 10 Sept 2007. (BBeB/LRF, Kindle and IMP)

The guidelines are here.

Thanks, that's most helpful. I wonder whether it might be helpful to add a few words to the guidelines to cover how to deal with surnames like du Maurier and von Arnim, and whether du Maurier and von Arnim are preferred to Du Maurier and Von Arnim - and of course other similar names.

AlexBell · 07-24-2019, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

And I must rant: What. Is. The. Deal? --- the preference for First Name sorting? Several sites I visit use this *horrible* option as default. Grrrrr!

I'm sorry, GrannyGrump, I don't understand what you mean by 'First Name sorting'.

Surely not sorting by given name?

07-20-2019, 03:33 AM	#1
AlexBell Wizard Posts: 3,413 Karma: 13369310 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Launceston, Tasmania Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet	du Maurier, George? Or Maurier, George du? In a week or so I expect to upload a book by George du Maurier to the MobileRead library. Should I enter the author's name as du Maurier, George; or as Maurier, George du? If the answer is in the wiki then please accept my apologies, and point it out to me. If the answer is not in the wiki could it be put there? Last edited by AlexBell; 07-25-2019 at 07:37 AM. Reason: fixed spelling mistake

07-22-2019, 06:34 AM	#6
GrannyGrump Obsessively Dedicated... Posts: 3,200 Karma: 34978132 Join Date: May 2011 Location: JAPAN (US expatriate) Device: Sony PRS-T2, ADE on PC	Personally, I would enter the thread title as du Maurier, George: blah blah blah disclaimer: This is my personal preference, I don't know if it is good advice or not... I would prefer this because that will affect where the name will appear in the Ebook Index (the master book list), and I do believe people would search for Du Maurier rather than for Maurier. Well, anyway, folks who have a similar mindset to my own. Am I the only one who uses the Ebook Index to search for titles or authors? Last edited by GrannyGrump; 07-22-2019 at 06:37 AM.

07-22-2019, 07:41 PM	#9
Tarana Wizard Posts: 4,010 Karma: 38840460 Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Minneapolis Device: PWSE, Voyage, K3, HDX, KBasic 7 & 8, Nook Glo3, Echos, Nanos	Old school alphabetizing considered articles in names to be separate words. Thus, Daphne du Maurier would be alphabetized Maurier, Daphne du. This is the style taken by Calibre. The new alphabetizing scheme that seemed to become commonly accepted in this century is to consider the article part of the name, so it is not separated in alphabetizing. Thus, du Maurier, Daphne would be correct. So, neither is wrong, just pick what pattern you want and stick with it. That means all those vons are in V now. Just remember though, that most established places, like libraries, are probably going to stick with the old school forever. Note: took a couple of courses on library science way back when, so it was of interest to me. Last edited by Tarana; 07-22-2019 at 07:43 PM.

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07-20-2019, 08:08 AM	#3
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,537 Karma: 19000001 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	I'd prefer "Maurier, George du", but it doesn't really matter because the guidelines are not being enforced and they've been broken too many times. ETA: We already have a couple of "Du Maurier, George".

07-20-2019, 02:25 PM	#4
dwig Wizard Posts: 1,613 Karma: 6718541 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Paradise (Key West, FL) Device: Current:Surface Go & Kindle 3 - Retired: DellV8p, Clie UX50, ...	Project Gutenberg uses "Du Maurier, George" and Wikipedia consistently uses "du Maurier" when not including his first name. I use "du Maurier, George" for the author_sort in calibre.

07-22-2019, 05:23 PM	#8
lumpynose Wizard Posts: 1,086 Karma: 6719822 Join Date: Jul 2012 Device: Palm Pilot M105	Just for the sake of stirring the pot and perhaps adding to the confusion, sometimes these last name prefixes get joined to the last name and become part of it. E.g., Vanderbilt. When I did the google search I suggested above a wikipedia page had examples and one of the items in its list was Dupont, so apparently originally it was du Pont.

07-22-2019, 11:25 PM	#10
GrannyGrump Obsessively Dedicated... Posts: 3,200 Karma: 34978132 Join Date: May 2011 Location: JAPAN (US expatriate) Device: Sony PRS-T2, ADE on PC	And I must rant: What. Is. The. Deal? --- the preference for First Name sorting? Several sites I visit use this horrible option as default. Grrrrr!

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