WiFi Passwords

[knc1]

I wrote Amazon, asking if the Wifi passwords where stored encrypted.
And if they where, did:

Originally Posted by Amazon

Firstly, WiFi passwords are not encrypted which means-

1. Our computers do not have access to the un-encrypted password.
2. Employees do not have access to the un-encrypted password.
3. No information is included in our data mining operations.

If you still have any queries or need more assistance then, I request you to write back to us using the below link and we will be happy to help you.

Now that has got to be "double speak" regardless if English is your first, second, third or thirtieth language.

Hmm...

Is that a written admission of their data mining operations on user information stored on their system?

Anybody want a little background app that **does** encrypt anything sent to Amazon by your Kindle?

[geekmaster]

If they data mine "no information" then what kind of "informationless" data do they mine? The only data that I can think of that fits this description is /dev/zero or /dev/urandom.

If their computers do not have access to the un-encrypted password (which is not encrypted), then what non-computer device do they store it on?

Though the admission to data mining sounds ominous, don't all companies do that as their main profit center these days?

Not so much double-speak as BS-speak, IMHO. Or just plain old-fashioned <expletive deleted>... Why did they even bother sending that reply? How did it get past their legal department?

[knc1]

It just tells me that the "front line" crew answering technical system questions all have a degree in Fine Arts (as contrasted to some field of science).

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by knc1

It just tells me that the "front line" crew answering technical system questions all have a degree in Fine Arts (as contrasted to some field of science).

Now what is the matter with an art degree?
There are some reasonably intelligent people with an AA degree.
Oh wait the AS degree was more work.

I don't think the front line requires any degree.
PS: Take this post the way it was intended. I just couldn't resist.

[geekmaster]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

I just couldn't resist.

Then the etchant burned off all your traces.

[geekmaster]

leet haxors @ amazon tech support:

[geekmaster]

http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/tact.html

All people have a "tact filter", which applies tact in one direction to everything that passes through it. Most "normal people" have the tact filter positioned to apply tact in the outgoing direction. Thus whatever normal people say gets the appropriate amount of tact applied to it before they say it. This is because when they were growing up, their parents continually drilled into their heads statements like, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all!"

"Nerds," on the other hand, have their tact filter positioned to apply tact in the incoming direction. Thus, whatever anyone says to them gets the appropriate amount of tact added when they hear it. This is because when nerds were growing up, they continually got picked on, and their parents continually drilled into their heads statements like, "They're just saying those mean things because they're jealous. They don't really mean it."

When normal people talk to each other, both people usually apply the appropriate amount of tact to everything they say, and no one's feelings get hurt. When nerds talk to each other, both people usually apply the appropriate amount of tact to everything they hear, and no one's feelings get hurt. However, when normal people talk to nerds, the nerds often get frustrated because the normal people seem to be dodging the real issues and not saying what they really mean. Worse yet, when nerds talk to normal people, the normal people's feelings often get hurt because the nerds don't apply tact, assuming the normal person will take their blunt statements and apply whatever tact is necessary.

So, nerds need to understand that normal people have to apply tact to everything they say; they become really uncomfortable if they can't do this. Normal people need to understand that despite the fact that nerds are usually tactless, things they say are almost never meant personally and shouldn't be taken that way. Both types of people need to be extra patient when dealing with someone whose tact filter is backwards relative to their own.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by geekmaster

http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/tact.html

Great post. I try to remember to apply outgoing tact. Note: it works about 10% of the time. Now in here, I don't worry about applying it.

[geekmaster]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Great post. I try to remember to apply outgoing tact. Note: it works about 10% of the time. Now in here, I don't worry about applying it.

No worries, a recipe for trouble when jocks invade the land of the nerdly hacker geeks...

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-....html#keepcool

Much of what looks like rudeness in hacker circles is not intended to give offense. Rather, it's the product of the direct, cut-through-the-bullshit communications style that is natural to people who are more concerned about solving problems than making others feel warm and fuzzy.

When you perceive rudeness, try to react calmly. If someone is really acting out, it is very likely a senior person on the list or newsgroup or forum will call him or her on it. If that doesn't happen and you lose your temper, it is likely that the person you lose it at was behaving within the hacker community's norms and you will be considered at fault. This will hurt your chances of getting the information or help you want.

On the other hand, you will occasionally run across rudeness and posturing that is quite gratuitous. The flip-side of the above is that it is acceptable form to slam real offenders quite hard, dissecting their misbehavior with a sharp verbal scalpel. Be very, very sure of your ground before you try this, however. The line between correcting an incivility and starting a pointless flamewar is thin enough that hackers themselves not infrequently blunder across it; if you are a newbie or an outsider, your chances of avoiding such a blunder are low. If you're after information rather than entertainment, it's better to keep your fingers off the keyboard than to risk this.

(Some people assert that many hackers have a mild form of autism or Asperger's Syndrome, and are actually missing some of the brain circuitry that lubricates “normal” human social interaction. This may or may not be true. If you are not a hacker yourself, it may help you cope with our eccentricities if you think of us as being brain-damaged. Go right ahead. We won't care; we like being whatever it is we are, and generally have a healthy skepticism about clinical labels.)

That part in parentheses confirms my understanding of Asperger's based on all the research I have done on this subject. And yes, aspies are geeks are nerds are hackers at least to some degree, in almost every case. Though because of negative social stigma, some of us deny it in public (and perhaps even to ourselves). But reality is what it is, and it speaks for itself.

[irreld]

I don't know why Amazon started to envy our wifi passwords. But the funny things is, they collect wifi passwords even on wifi-only kindles. So you have to connect to wi-fi manually to 'sync your wi-fi password' !

I don't expect Amazon to encrypt these passwords, since they must be decrypted to plain text to be used on our devices. And there will always be a key for that is stored on their 'secure server that employees have no access to' .

The only things I expect is Amazon offering 'Disable Wifi Password' Sync' option in 5.8.2, or the update.bin.tmp.partial trick always working in 5.7.3.

For their awesome data-mining ( and possible data-sharing with gov or trading or leaking ) plan and their delicate double-speak , I felt powerless. But I am still glad to mail jeffbezos@amazon.com as I may buy 'a PW4 or KT3 shipping with 5.9.x.
.
Isn't it so ridiculous that a bookseller is asking for my wi-fi password?

[geekmaster]

Originally Posted by irreld

I don't know why Amazon started to envy our wifi passwords. [...] Isn't it so ridiculous that a bookseller is asking for my wi-fi password?

Just the price of convenience these days. Polls have shown that the younger generation will gladly give away all their privacy in exchange for some extremely invasive but convenient eye-candy, which makes their life easier and is pretty to look at. Old-school folks like many of us just raise our eyebrows and shake our heads in dismay. Privacy is dead, and many of us like to pretend that it just isn't so. The internet is always watching and it never forgets.

http://www.androidcentral.com/talk-m...ts-talk-mobile

Except for the really really good stuff that isn't profitable. The internet forgets that (especially if a robots.txt got in the way of archive.org, which happens all too often)...

[eschwartz]

I would really much prefer it if Amazon used some easily-recognizable format for storing the information ondevice.
I could sync it myself.

...

I do admire Amazon Customer Service and their incredible talent at "just plain old-fashioned <expletive deleted> [speech]".

[knc1]

Originally Posted by geekmaster

If they data mine "no information" then what kind of "informationless" data do they mine?
- - - -

I think the writer meant "clueless".

[geekmaster]

Originally Posted by knc1

I think the writer meant "clueless".

Most data mining operations harvest metadata, which is information-rich. Perhaps they meant "no personally-identifiable information".