'Retina' (300dpi) eInk Display under development

pdurrant · 05-18-2011, 12:14 PM

http://www.reghardware.com/2011/05/1...etina_display/

"E Ink and Epson are to jointly develop a electronic paper panel with a "retina display" pixel density... almost.

[...]

The E Ink / Epson screen will have a 300ppi, but even that will make the current Kindle's 167ppi look low res.

It'll be bigger, though: an iPad-like 9.7in to the Kindle's six. The new screen's resolution will be 2400 x 1650, and monochrome.

E Ink will develop the display itself, Epson the chip that controls the screen.

Neither firm said when the screen will appear in e-book readers you can buy.

Andrew H. · 05-18-2011, 01:52 PM

That's interesting, although e-ink is already a "retina display" in the sense that you can't see the pixels.

raac · 05-19-2011, 08:52 PM

I can see aliasing effects on 170 dpi e-ink: effectively, I can see the pixels.

JeremyR · 05-20-2011, 06:26 AM

The problem with LCDs is that you can see spaces between the pixels. Either because there is a space between them or when 2 of the 3 elements are off.

On a so-so portable LCD screen, like in a Nintendo DS or PSP, you can see both pretty obviously. Not so much on the iPhone

You don't have that with e-ink - not only are there not 3 elements in each pixel, there's no space between the pixels.

And you've got to have pretty good eyes to see anti-aliasing on e-ink. It's only obvious to me on the blow up views. (Then again, I think you have a larger than 6" reader, maybe that's it?)

raac · 05-20-2011, 09:56 AM

What you say about the difference between the screen types is true. Yes, my screen is 6", but the letter size isn't influenced by that. I notice aliasing effects on, say, the diagonal components of an "A" when these lines are thin (so, smaller fonts are more of a problem). I suspect the e-ink display is running out of pixels and can no longer do a good job at anti-aliasing. It's not a big distraction for me--and some fonts are worse than others--but I can often see a small quality difference between a printed book and e-ink. I think printed books are 300 or 600 dpi.

Anyway... What I was getting at was that a 300 dpi screen may well look nicer than the current generation of displays. Probably not enough of a difference to make me want to upgrade, however. I think we're still at a stage where a contrast boost would be more useful than a resolution boost.

charleski · 07-08-2011, 01:53 AM

Here's some video from the show in May where it was demoed (the 300dpi display is shown in the last segment, from 2:17:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpazF6ptq4o
The display shown is static unfortunately, and we don't get any idea of the display's speed, though he says it doesn't have the 'flash' (which may just mean they're using partial refresh).

If they can sell this display for a reasonable price I'd be very interested.

J. Strnad · 07-08-2011, 02:21 AM

Higher resolution would be nice, but I agree that contrast is more of an issue. Though really, I'm pretty darned happy with the current display, and the flash doesn't bother me at all.

j.p.s · 07-08-2011, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

Higher resolution would be nice, but I agree that contrast is more of an issue. Though really, I'm pretty darned happy with the current display, and the flash doesn't bother me at all.

Maybe people bothered by the flash could learn to subconsciously blink during page turns.

RainingLemur · 07-08-2011, 04:02 PM

That definitely sounds interesting. I'd like to see one next to a couple other "non-retina" eInk'ers to see the differences.

JSWolf · 07-11-2011, 12:53 PM

Too bad the video was of such poor quality that we could not see the 300dpi screen all that well.

tomsem · 07-11-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

Higher resolution would be nice, but I agree that contrast is more of an issue. Though really, I'm pretty darned happy with the current display, and the flash doesn't bother me at all.

higher dot pitch would be helpful, particularly with smaller text sizes. As it is, there's too much antialiasing that happens, which negates the benefit of the contrast that is available now. I think the contrast is good enough with Pearl screens so higher density is the direction I'd like to see (provided it doesn't impact performance too much).

Lbooker · 07-12-2011, 09:43 AM

Flash is bad for concentration. French scientists proved it in their lab at Paris Jussieu university. Every flash distracts the brain.
So if this new screen does not flash, it is a great step forward.
The improved Fujistsu screen seems to have no flash as well :
http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...r-screenvideo/

j.p.s · 07-12-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lbooker

Flash is bad for concentration. French scientists proved it in their lab at Paris Jussieu university. Every flash distracts the brain.
So if this new screen does not flash, it is a great step forward.
The improved Fujistsu screen seems to have no flash as well :
http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...r-screenvideo/

That slow crawl across the screen is even worse for concentration.

Dulin's Books · 07-12-2011, 01:06 PM

the new screen would flash if it was set to do a full refresh ever time, just as with current eink displays in other current readers.

05-18-2011, 12:14 PM	#1
pdurrant The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠 Posts: 72,480 Karma: 309060442 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norfolk, England Device: Kindle Voyage	'Retina' (300dpi) eInk Display under development http://www.reghardware.com/2011/05/1...etina_display/ "E Ink and Epson are to jointly develop a electronic paper panel with a "retina display" pixel density... almost. [...] The E Ink / Epson screen will have a 300ppi, but even that will make the current Kindle's 167ppi look low res. It'll be bigger, though: an iPad-like 9.7in to the Kindle's six. The new screen's resolution will be 2400 x 1650, and monochrome. E Ink will develop the display itself, Epson the chip that controls the screen. Neither firm said when the screen will appear in e-book readers you can buy.

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05-18-2011, 01:52 PM	#2
Andrew H. Grand Master of Flowers Posts: 2,201 Karma: 8389072 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Naptown Device: Kindle PW, Kindle 3 (aka Keyboard), iPhone, iPad 3 (not for reading)	That's interesting, although e-ink is already a "retina display" in the sense that you can't see the pixels.

05-19-2011, 08:52 PM	#3
raac Zealot Posts: 111 Karma: 1003802 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NY Device: Sony PRS-950	I can see aliasing effects on 170 dpi e-ink: effectively, I can see the pixels.

05-20-2011, 06:26 AM	#4
JeremyR Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 2458402 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: St. Louis Device: Kindle Keyboard, Nook HD+	The problem with LCDs is that you can see spaces between the pixels. Either because there is a space between them or when 2 of the 3 elements are off. On a so-so portable LCD screen, like in a Nintendo DS or PSP, you can see both pretty obviously. Not so much on the iPhone You don't have that with e-ink - not only are there not 3 elements in each pixel, there's no space between the pixels. And you've got to have pretty good eyes to see anti-aliasing on e-ink. It's only obvious to me on the blow up views. (Then again, I think you have a larger than 6" reader, maybe that's it?)

05-20-2011, 09:56 AM	#5
raac Zealot Posts: 111 Karma: 1003802 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NY Device: Sony PRS-950	What you say about the difference between the screen types is true. Yes, my screen is 6", but the letter size isn't influenced by that. I notice aliasing effects on, say, the diagonal components of an "A" when these lines are thin (so, smaller fonts are more of a problem). I suspect the e-ink display is running out of pixels and can no longer do a good job at anti-aliasing. It's not a big distraction for me--and some fonts are worse than others--but I can often see a small quality difference between a printed book and e-ink. I think printed books are 300 or 600 dpi. Anyway... What I was getting at was that a 300 dpi screen may well look nicer than the current generation of displays. Probably not enough of a difference to make me want to upgrade, however. I think we're still at a stage where a contrast boost would be more useful than a resolution boost.

07-08-2011, 01:53 AM	#6
charleski Wizard Posts: 1,196 Karma: 1281258 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: PRS-505	Here's some video from the show in May where it was demoed (the 300dpi display is shown in the last segment, from 2:17: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpazF6ptq4o The display shown is static unfortunately, and we don't get any idea of the display's speed, though he says it doesn't have the 'flash' (which may just mean they're using partial refresh). If they can sell this display for a reasonable price I'd be very interested.

07-08-2011, 02:21 AM	#7
J. Strnad Guru Posts: 915 Karma: 3537194 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kobo, Kindle 3, Paperwhite	Higher resolution would be nice, but I agree that contrast is more of an issue. Though really, I'm pretty darned happy with the current display, and the flash doesn't bother me at all.

07-08-2011, 04:02 PM	#9
RainingLemur Spork Connoisseur Posts: 2,355 Karma: 16780603 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: Nook Color	That definitely sounds interesting. I'd like to see one next to a couple other "non-retina" eInk'ers to see the differences.

07-11-2011, 12:53 PM	#10
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 76,354 Karma: 136006198 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Too bad the video was of such poor quality that we could not see the 300dpi screen all that well.

07-12-2011, 09:43 AM	#12
Lbooker Addict Posts: 316 Karma: 1021312 Join Date: Jun 2009 Device: Sony PRS-T1	Flash is bad for concentration. French scientists proved it in their lab at Paris Jussieu university. Every flash distracts the brain. So if this new screen does not flash, it is a great step forward. The improved Fujistsu screen seems to have no flash as well : http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...r-screenvideo/

07-12-2011, 01:06 PM	#14
Dulin's Books Wizard Posts: 2,806 Karma: 13500000 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland, OR Device: Boox PB360 etc etc etc	the new screen would flash if it was set to do a full refresh ever time, just as with current eink displays in other current readers.

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