Windows 10 - free upgrade to those with PC using Windows 7 or 8

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by theducks

control Panel: Windows update: (on the sidebar)Change settings: Never (not reccomended)
is one of the choices

Yup but it updates anyway. On 4 separate computers.

Helen

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Tarana

Honestly, I think people have had enough of upgrading without real improvement. It isn't just the OS you are upgrading - you have to upgrade your programs as well and that can be a problem if a program you use is no longer upgraded. It isn't laziness. Your time is valuable as is your $$. I will likely stay with system 7 as I don't have enough need for across-devices options.

As I've said before, all of the programs I am running on both Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 run just fine for the same version. So I don't think Windows 10 will be any different. Sure there could be the odd program, but overall the programs you run now will still run. Besides, if they are legit programs and there is an update, most will be free.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that since you were mentioning upgrading Windows, your subscription comment was about Windows itself, not an unrelated topic.

So yes, you should've clarified before assuming "you are a Linux person from what I gather so not expected to be up to date on Microsoft"...

OOH, OOH, looks like I might actually have thought before I spoke, instead of being a clueless non-Windows user.
Who'd'a thunk?



Err, I said they don't nag you. Ubuntu Update Manager for example will IIRC pop up a "Your updates have completed"-style* message as part of the updater GUI (the sparkly download bars, you see ) which will also alert you if "Some updates will not take effect until your PC is rebooted" or some such*. usually, a kernel upgrade will require this.
Then it shuts up.

A command-line updater, like ArchLinux's pacman, or Ubuntu's apt-get backend, won't pop up anything at all, mostly because it often gets run on a headless server...

Additionally, Ubuntu's desktop environment contains code to add a red bar in the dropdown for the logoff/shutdown/account-switcher tray icon, a simple unobtrusive banner that reminds you that some updates will take effect after the next reboot.



Contrast that to Windows, where the reboot is mandatory and pops up annoying timer messages, something that has admittedly gotten less (but still somewhat) offensive in successive Windows versions. And when Windows does reboot, it must "Configure Updates" for obscene periods of time....



Regarding nagging you to perform updates, neither linux nor Mac nor Windows does that to my knowledge. Windows has a tray icon which you can easily hide, or change the options to make it not check automatically. Ubuntu can be set to check automatically, and if so, will display the aforementioned unobtrusive banner, with a different message. (Other distros have their own ways, addons to the desktop -- none are even mandatory.)


* -- I forget the exact language used, simply because I moved on from Ubuntu a long time ago.



I agree, that is merely what MS claims is the best user experience. For most people it is in fact irrelevant...

Sorry. I assumed you weren't a Windows person because I have a perhaps false recollection of you saying on more than one occasion that you switched to Linux. Or preferred Linux. If you have never said anything remotely along those lines I am sincerely sorry.

And my subscription service thing was not specific in any way to Windows, and aimed at the several articles I have read that indicate this is a general trend/aim by Microsoft. But they do have a sort of a subscription service, and have had for several years whereby you receive all updates on one or more products including Windows 7 (which AFAIK you get for free anyway). Two friends of mine subscribe, paying annually or monthly, and can install n and update numerous devices/products for no other charge than the subscription. Apparently it is pretty easy to deploy on a fairly wide scale.

I don't call a reminder to reboot for it to work nagging.
It is the constant reminder that there are updates pending, that I dislike. maybe some people can turn it off by setting the options, but it hasn't worked for me.

Last night I disabled updates by selecting never check for updates on my surface Pro 3. Turned of tablet and started it again. This morning there was a big blue update ready to install screen.

Helen

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

My surface Pro 3 has these options as well.
I have had option 2 selected, but it has installed them anyway but only after warning me for a day or so unless I rebooted.

Now I have selected option 4 and will be pleasantly surprised if there is no indication of an impending update and/or the app store still works without them. Not that I won't do an update but I think I can hold off for a month or so just to see.

Helen

Well despite selecting never check for updates my Surface Pro 3 demanded I update this AM.

Again, it is not like I don't update, just I would like to pick the time, and why give you the option to never check for updates when it is so blatantly ignored.

Helen

It could be a hardware update. Those are different then an OS update.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Sorry. I assumed you weren't a Windows person because I have a perhaps false recollection of you saying on more than one occasion that you switched to Linux. Or preferred Linux. If you have never said anything remotely along those lines I am sincerely sorry.

You have recollected correctly, but why on earth should that mean I don't know things about how Windows works?

I am perfectly capable of both preferring linux and knowing and occasionally using* Windows.
This is because I am a multi-talented individual.



* -- my personal computer may run Windows, but the school computers and the ones that belong to friends**, do not.
** -- I help them sometimes. I am a nice person...

And my subscription service thing was not specific in any way to Windows, and aimed at the several articles I have read that indicate this is a general trend/aim by Microsoft. But they do have a sort of a subscription service, and have had for several years whereby you receive all updates on one or more products including Windows 7 (which AFAIK you get for free anyway). Two friends of mine subscribe, paying annually or monthly, and can install n and update numerous devices/products for no other charge than the subscription. Apparently it is pretty easy to deploy on a fairly wide scale.

Good for you.

It was not apparent from your post that you were talking about anything other than Windows itself.

I don't call a reminder to reboot for it to work nagging.
It is the constant reminder that there are updates pending, that I dislike. maybe some people can turn it off by setting the options, but it hasn't worked for me.

Awesome, we are in agreement. Incidentally, what do you call mandatory reboots when you are in the middle of working on something?

Now, back to the topic at hand -- did you or did you or did you not erroneously misinterpret my words to derive the conclusion that linux has mandatory "Updates are available"-type nagging?

Last night I disabled updates by selecting never check for updates on my surface Pro 3. Turned of tablet and started it again. This morning there was a big blue update ready to install screen.

Helen

File a bug report with Microsoft.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It could be a hardware update. Those are different then an OS update.

Hardware updates would be incredibly noticeable. You can tell because of the way (strange?) people are in the room rummaging around in the casing and swapping stuff in and out.

... or did you mean firmware updates?
Those tend to be software-based too, the key point being that you still have to download it (it doesn't happen through osmosis), and something has to be checking for them.

Generally firmware updates get downloaded from the manufacturer's website manually, yes? Why would they be manifesting as an update notification?

Originally Posted by eschwartz

... or did you mean firmware updates?

Device driver updates, presumably. There are certainly companies that provide updaters for device drivers. AMD comes to mind for video cards, though I have seen it in other cases as well.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Hardware updates would be incredibly noticeable. You can tell because of the way (strange?) people are in the room rummaging around in the casing and swapping stuff in and out.

... or did you mean firmware updates?
Those tend to be software-based too, the key point being that you still have to download it (it doesn't happen through osmosis), and something has to be checking for them.

Generally firmware updates get downloaded from the manufacturer's website manually, yes? Why would they be manifesting as an update notification?

I think He means hardware device driver updates, as in updates to the device drivers for installed hardware. I am reasonably certain, as he owns a Surface tablet, that he was talking about the many, and well advertised deficiencies in the way the hardware functions. Notably devices such as wireless AC did not always connect or the video controller overheats, or the dock ports stop functioning or supplying power to the tablet.

They manifest as an update notification because Microsoft is updating them.

Pretty sure this is not generally the reason for updates, but even if it were I see it as no more urgent than any other.

Helen

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Device driver updates, presumably. There are certainly companies that provide updaters for device drivers. AMD comes to mind for video cards, though I have seen it in other cases as well.

Those would be firmware updates.

Companies usually provide updates for their own products.

Makers of graphics cards usually provide a utility for managing that hardware, which comes with an updater. You can always rely on the drivers MS ships, but gamers would prefer the performance improvements from keeping up-to-date via the vendor software.

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I think He means hardware device driver updates, as in updates to the device drivers for installed hardware. I am reasonably certain, as he owns a Surface tablet, that he was talking about the many, and well advertised deficiencies in the way the hardware functions. Notably devices such as wireless AC did not always connect or the video controller overheats, or the dock ports stop functioning or supplying power to the tablet.

They manifest as an update notification because Microsoft is updating them.

Pretty sure this is not generally the reason for updates, but even if it were I see it as no more urgent than any other.

Helen

See above.

As far as I am aware, driver firmware updates should not appear any different from any other updates.

And only the really important ones make it to Windows Update, there are scads of driver updates that languish on the manufacturer website.

Commonly-accepted wisdom holds -- don't update them! Unless you are trying to fix a specific problem.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

You have recollected correctly, but why on earth should that mean I don't know things about how Windows works?

I am perfectly capable of both preferring linux and knowing and occasionally using* Windows.
This is because I am a multi-talented individual.



* -- my personal computer may run Windows, but the school computers and the ones that belong to friends**, do not.
** -- I help them sometimes. I am a nice person...




Good for you.

It was not apparent from your post that you were talking about anything other than Windows itself.



Awesome, we are in agreement. Incidentally, what do you call mandatory reboots when you are in the middle of working on something?

Now, back to the topic at hand -- did you or did you or did you not erroneously misinterpret my words to derive the conclusion that linux has mandatory "Updates are available"-type nagging?



File a bug report with Microsoft.

First off I interpreted your words to mean that Linux will attempt to download updates whether you want it to or not. And probably install them. I do not think them evil if they do, just another reason for me not to go Linux.
Anyway enlighten me.

Mandatory reboots are when it arbitrarily reboots when you are working something with or without a warning to save your work. Or reboots when you have been working on something, but are away from your desk to eat, talk to someone, fed the fishes etc. Maybe it warned you, maybe it didn't. Or when you are watching a show on your computer in bed and have just rolled over to listen to the last 5 minutes while you doze off and sudden silence. I am annoyed by this so I just can't drift off. Got to wait till it finishes, put in the password, find the show again. Really annoyed by the time this is over. Happens at least once a week.

And based on what you have said, is my impression, which I think I qualified at the time that you are a Linux user wrong? Or even pejorative. I certainly hope that I didn't imply or state you are totally ignorant on the subject. I can use Linux, IOS and Android and quite often help people with who use these OS regularly. I can always look things up and usually fix them.

Can't say I am sensitive enough to get even a little bent out of shape if someone implied, hinted or outdate stated that I was less than an expert in all or any, including Windows. Because I know I am not.

Helen

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Those would be firmware updates.

I think we have different ideas of what constitutes firmware. Every definition that I've seen involves firmware being stored on the device itself, while device drivers are an OS level abstraction that allows the OS to interact with the device. While those device driver packages may incorporate firmware updates, that is not always the case. For example, the device drivers and firmware for my printer are separate downloads.

You can always rely on the drivers MS ships, but gamers would prefer the performance improvements from keeping up-to-date via the vendor software.

It depends upon the drivers themselves. Some of the drivers shipped by Microsoft are supplied by the vendor, and will reflect the functionality of the device. Other drivers are generic drivers developed by Microsoft themselves, and will provide basic functionality.

As far as I am aware, driver firmware updates should not appear any different from any other updates.

If you are using hardware that Microsoft distributes drivers for, yes. If you are using the vendor's drivers (and this seems to include drivers for some Microsoft peripherals), no.

And only the really important ones make it to Windows Update, there are scads of driver updates that languish on the manufacturer website.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Yup but it updates anyway. On 4 separate computers.

Helen

Since I would have never chosen that particular setting... I did not know it did tat

I always choose a 'Notify Me'. Desktops, I allow the download. On Laptops, Just notify as I may not have Battery or Time or bandwidth available.

I also use only the Advanced install screen where I can pick, choose or hide (mark ignore) updates

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

First off I interpreted your words to mean that Linux will attempt to download updates whether you want it to or not. And probably install them. I do not think them evil if they do, just another reason for me not to go Linux.
Anyway enlighten me.

Enlightenment:

linux is all about what you want. It will never attempt to download updates unless you specifically tell it to. You have the choice to configure scheduled updates.
linux will never demand anything of you. linux will offer suggestions if you ask it to, and is perfectly content without fussing, whatever you choose.

If you do schedule updates to happen on their own, it does not interrupt your work. It does not require rebooting either. I can count the number of times where a linux update, scheduled or manual, caused me consternation, on the fingers of, um, zero hands.

Mandatory reboots are when it arbitrarily reboots when you are working something with or without a warning to save your work. Or reboots when you have been working on something, but are away from your desk to eat, talk to someone, fed the fishes etc. Maybe it warned you, maybe it didn't. Or when you are watching a show on your computer in bed and have just rolled over to listen to the last 5 minutes while you doze off and sudden silence. I am annoyed by this so I just can't drift off. Got to wait till it finishes, put in the password, find the show again. Really annoyed by the time this is over. Happens at least once a week.

And that is exactly what linux doesn't do. EVER.
Even when you choose to reboot, it always starts up again immediately.

And based on what you have said, is my impression, which I think I qualified at the time that you are a Linux user wrong? Or even pejorative. I certainly hope that I didn't imply or state you are totally ignorant on the subject. I can use Linux, IOS and Android and quite often help people with who use these OS regularly. I can always look things up and usually fix them.

You are entirely correct that I am a linux user. What is your point?

Can't say I am sensitive enough to get even a little bent out of shape if someone implied, hinted or outdate stated that I was less than an expert in all or any, including Windows. Because I know I am not.

Helen

You mentioned subscriptions in the middle of a discussion about Windows itself. I assumed you were talking about Windows itself as a subscription. Innocent confusion.

You then dismissed everything I said on the grounds that: "Of course you are a Linux person from what I gather so not expected to be up to date on Microsoft[...]".

Implying that since I am a linux person, I fundamentally cannot have any idea what you were talking about.

Note: I am assuming that you must have meant something with that statement, therefore you must have meant this.
From the context of my previous comments, I clearly know more than a bit, or at least think I do .

A decision tree: either I

1. know what I am talking about when it comes to Windows/MS.
2. don't know what I am talking about when it comes to Windows/MS, and cheerfully admit it.
3. don't know what I am talking about when it comes to Windows/MS, and make embarrassing comments that show my pretend knowledge.

I am clearly not #2.
You assumed based on my status as a linux person that I am not #1 either.
Thus you must be assuming #3.



There was absolutely no need whatsoever, regardless of any other factor or topic of discussion that came up now or then or anywhere in between, to hypothesize about my familiarity with MS/Windows, as it certainly did not advance the conversation at the time.

That you made that entirely unnecessary comment anyway, came across entirely the wrong way.

[murg]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Ask anyone. Your Mother in law perhaps or a 12 year old.

Helen

I asked my 15 year old. Got blank stare. Then again, that's what I get regardless of what question was asked...

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Dylrob

Why upgrade when what they have still does everything they need it to? Even XP users have little trouble handling the latest web features thanks to continued support by third party browsers.

But XP users have a real hassle trying to run Calibre 2.x. And they also have the same hassle trying to runt he latest Sigil. It's a combination of XP and/or outdated hardware.

The reason XP is not getting a Windows 10 upgrade is that a lot of XP systems cannot handle the processor requirements which is the same as Windows 8.1.