Dealing with Kindle ebooks in calibre

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Lief

It could be but the old kindles don't handle the new drm so they would bother many more users than a few that know about drm stuff (even a lot of user that are just using old kindle devices).
Also personally speaking I prefer to risk that they correct the drm in books where it shouldn't be there rather than risk that they never do it simply because no one goes to ask. The risk that they will tighten DRM on Download & Transfer is there even if nobody ask anything (they did tighten DRM on Kindle PC app even without anybody asking).
Anyway, mine was a suggestion, obviously everyone will choose what to do. On my side I have already reported and I hope that at least that problem will be fixed, even if it is not in their interest to do so.
In a few months, if the DRM is still there, I will remove my book from Amazon (I make a really low amount anyway, and I published it on itch so it's there for those who want to buy it).

Please leave Amazon alone and stop calling to get things fixed that we don't want fixed.

[gbm]

I do not foresee Amazon doing away with Download & Transfer by USB any time soon. My reasoning on this is that Amazon has a contractual obligation to provide drm free downloads to several publishers plus all the independent authors who clicked that little drm free box when they uploaded ebooks.

Now IMHO they have violated that obligation with putting kfx drm on all Kindle4PC downloads, but that is just my opinion.

I can see Amazon start using KFX for Download & Transfer by USB that do use drm.

bernie

Originally Posted by odamizu

I had the same thought. Drawing attention to the fact that Download & Transfer provides some books DRM-free seems more likely to cause Amazon to tighten DRM on Download & Transfer, not loosen DRM on Kindle for PC. It may even hasten the day that Amazon decides to shut Download & Transfer down.

[Lief]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Please leave Amazon alone and stop calling to get things fixed that we don't want fixed.

I want them to fix the added drm on Kindle PC app.
I published a book with them that should be drm-free.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by Lief

I want them to fix the added drm on Kindle PC app.
I published a book with them that should be drm-free.

Stop publishing with them, then. If they deliberately made things more cumbersome, that's not going to change.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by gbm

My reasoning on this is that Amazon has a contractual obligation to provide drm free downloads to several publishers plus all the independent authors who clicked that little drm free box when they uploaded ebooks.

Can you provide more information on this contractual obligation? What does Amazon actually promise?

Originally Posted by gbm

Now IMHO they have violated that obligation with putting kfx drm on all Kindle4PC downloads, but that is just my opinion.

That is nothing new. KFX format is used for most books on most platforms, not just on Kindle for PC. Other than personal documents, books in KFX always have DRM. That applies to Kindle devices, apps on Windows, iOS, Android, and Mac. Download and Transfer and old Kindles are the exception with some books not being DRM protected.

The recent change is Amazon again updating the DRM to something that has not yet been broken.

[Lief]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Stop publishing with them, then. If they deliberately made things more cumbersome, that's not going to change.

I quote myself

In a few months, if the DRM is still there, I will remove my book from Amazon

However, I wanted to do one last test to see if it was possible to make them fix an obvious bug (even if probably intentional).
As a customer and author I have every right to try to report a bug and I bet that if it wasn't me alone who did it, Amazon would have had to fix that bug (even if it was there on purpose).

Which wouldn't change the fact that ebooks with drm would still be delivered with currently non-removable drm and, unfortunately, most ebooks on amazon have such drm.
What they should fix, however, is the presence of drm where the author has explicitly excluded it.

And, while it's true that this DRM is nothing new (it dates back to 2021 for Kindle PC app), it's also true that at that time I had no alternative stores to publish to and that until today the DRM was relatively easy to remove.
So it was a good time for me to try to report the bug.
That said, it is completely useless for you and others to complain about my choice... I already made the report, even if I wanted to I can't change this fact.

And frankly speaking I don't understand why you don't try to fight for your rights... it's not like keeping the "Download & Transfer by USB" option "safe" is that important (and I don't believe amazon forgot about it and is keeping it alive because they want, they just have to because old kindles do not read new drm)... it only works for those who own a Kindle that is really old today, given how things are what makes sense to do is to make a drm-free backup (while still possible with Kindle PC app previous version or the old Download & Transfer by USB method) and buy ebooks elsewhere like on kobo (if after that the new DRM will be defeated again we can think about that in a different way).

For ebooks only on Amazon you can contact the author and, if the latter does not want to publish elsewhere, you simply do not buy.

Sorry but I don't think "hide scared that amazon will remove working options" is a good strategy, expecially one that you can only use with an old kindle device... I think everybody that buy my book even without a kindle should be able to get it drm-free. As far as I'm concerned it's much more important that the fact that the Kindle PC app downloads with drm even where the author publishes without drm is fixed.
And, as an author and customer who cares about these things, and having found an alternative to publish, I will give amazon until October to fix this problem on Kindle PC.

[lkmiller]

I wish publishers like Tor and Saga who are suppose to be DRM-free would put up a fuss. But I don't see it happening.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Lief

I want them to fix the added drm on Kindle PC app.
I published a book with them that should be drm-free.

KFX has DRM like it or not. Amazon will not change that. Even it you requested no DRM, Amazon is still going to add it to KFX. It's not a bug. It's not broken. That's the way Amazon wants it. Amazon's idea of DRM-free KFX is an eBook that can be read on any Kindle that can handle KFX.

Your reporting this as a bug is not going to change it. It's not a bug. IT's how Amazon wants it done.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by lkmiller

I wish publishers like Tor and Saga who are suppose to be DRM-free would put up a fuss. But I don't see it happening.

This is why if you know an eBook is supposed to be without DRM, buy the ePub version and get an eBook with no DRM. You can easily convert it to be able to be read on a Kindle if you want.

[Lief]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

KFX has DRM like it or not. Amazon will not change that. Even it you requested no DRM, Amazon is still going to add it to KFX. It's not a bug. It's not broken. That's the way Amazon wants it. Amazon's idea of DRM-free KFX is an eBook that can be read on any Kindle that can handle KFX.

Your reporting this as a bug is not going to change it. It's not a bug. IT's how Amazon wants it done.

Actually KFX format by default is not with drm (at least not as a format, amazon only deliver it with drm).
I can create KFX ebook with Kindle Preview 3 without drm. Until the last version I was able to import ebook from Kindle PC app into Calibre and make them drm-free in KFX format (and only after that was drm-free I was converting it to epub).
So no, KFX is not drm by default as a format, is drm by default when you download any book from amazon right now.
Of course I don't like it since it is a proprietary format, but KFX and drm are two separate things. That's why KFX Input/Output exist.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

This is why if you know an eBook is supposed to be without DRM, buy the ePub version and get an eBook with no DRM. You can easily convert it to be able to be read on a Kindle if you want.

On this I 100% agree with you.

[Sirtel]

Just a note: Download & Transfer works with any Kindle, not just the old models. Of course that could change at any moment.

[ownedbycats]

The fact that it requires a Kindle, though...

The Kobo store just lets you straight-up download the files (DRM-free ePubs or ACSMs) without any of that B.S. or locking to specific devices.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

The fact that it requires a Kindle, though...

The Kobo store just lets you straight-up download the files (DRM-free ePubs or ACSMs) without any of that B.S. or locking to specific devices.

Well, from a logical viewpoint, Kobo sells epubs, which can be read on a number of different devices, DRM or not. So it makes sense to let people download them. Amazon sells books in their proprietary formats, which can't be read on any device or app except for Amazon's, so they see no reason to provide file downloads.

I'm not saying I agree with Amazon or that I wouldn't want them to allow downloads. Just that from their viewpoint it doesn't make sense to provide them.

No bookstore who sells DRMed ebooks cares about their customers' wish to remove said DRM or make backups. Some are just indifferent (Kobo), others actively take steps to prevent it (B&N, Amazon).

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by Lief

... What they should fix, however, is the presence of drm where the author has explicitly excluded it.

I agree with this and have no problem with you reporting a "bug" in Kindle for PC. My concern is with your using Download & Transfer as evidence of the "bug" in Kindle for PC, which could just cause Amazon to add the "bug" to Download & Transfer so that you can no longer use it as evidence.

Originally Posted by Lief

... it's not like keeping the "Download & Transfer by USB" option "safe" is that important (and I don't believe amazon forgot about it and is keeping it alive because they want, they just have to because old kindles do not read new drm)... it only works for those who own a Kindle that is really old today, given how things are what makes sense to do is to make a drm-free backup (while still possible with Kindle PC app previous version or the old Download & Transfer by USB method) and buy ebooks elsewhere like on kobo (if after that the new DRM will be defeated again we can think about that in a different way).

First, Download & Transfer works for all eink Kindles, even new ones. So this affects everyone who owns an eink Kindle, not just old Kindles.

I get that you think this is not important, and you think it's no big deal to buy ebooks elsewhere. Fine, that's your choice. But other people like Download & Transfer and would like to keep it the way it is. Telling them they can just buy books elsewhere because you don't care about Download & Transfer is like blowing up everyone's boats because you don't care about yours.

Also, I'm sure Amazon hasn't forgotten that Download & Transfer provides DRM-free ebooks when the author/publisher specifies. So far they seem content to leave it that way, which is good. But if there's a big fuss about Download & Transfer and DRM, they may decide to make changes, which is contrary to the purpose of this thread.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Lief

Actually KFX format by default is not with drm (at least not as a format, amazon only deliver it with drm).
I can create KFX ebook with Kindle Preview 3 without drm. Until the last version I was able to import ebook from Kindle PC app into Calibre and make them drm-free in KFX format (and only after that was drm-free I was converting it to epub).
So no, KFX is not drm by default as a format, is drm by default when you download any book from amazon right now.
Of course I don't like it since it is a proprietary format, but KFX and drm are two separate things. That's why KFX Input/Output exist.

I know KFX doesn't have to have DRM. What I'm saying is that Amazon adds DRM to KFX regardless of the fact that you don't want DRM. Because of the way the DRM works with KF8 (aka AZW3) Amazon decided to create a new file forat so they could also create a new DRM that they can update as needed to prevent removing the DRM.

KF8 has been cracked which is why Amazon created KFX instead of updating the KF8 software to do hyphenation, Kerning, and Ligatures. Adobe Digital Editions does all the enhanced typesetting that KFX does and it doesn't need some pre-compiled format to do that.Amazon could have just as easily done it with KF8. But because of the way KF8 DRM works and the fact that it's been cracked, Amazon didn't want to update KF8 and instead wanted to try to make it harder to remove the DRM and thus KFX (aka Devil's Spawn) was born.