FTC sues amazon over dark patterns

[Apache]

Originally Posted by John F

I guess my state isn't one of those "general sense" states.


My understanding is that warehouse jobs can be gruelling, at least that was bought up in previous discussions.

Warehouses are cold in the winter and gruelingly hot in the summer. If the wind is blowing in the winter it feels even colder. Most companies give you a half hour lunch break and two fifteen minutes breaks in between.
Apache

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by John F

My understanding is that warehouse jobs can be gruelling, at least that was bought up in previous discussions.

There was something in the news recently that the air conditioner is broken in a lot of amazon delivery vans, putting drivers in hot regions in danger.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Apache

Warehouses are cold in the winter and gruelingly hot in the summer. If the wind is blowing in the winter it feels even colder.

Yep. As it was in the multiple non-Amazon warehouse jobs I've had in my life, as well. Warehouses are not offices, and the phrase "live off the sweat of my brow" was inspired long before Amazon existed. I only wish the sweat/ice boxes jobs I had had payed similarly to what Amazon does. I'd have jumped ship in a heartbeat. Amazon warehouses still pay more than what I currently make. If one was close by and I could get hired, I could easily afford the Carhartt's and personal cooling devices that would mitigate the extreme temperatures I've dealt with most of my working life.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Yep. As it was in the multiple non-Amazon warehouse jobs I've had in my life, as well. Warehouses are not offices, and the phrase "live off the sweat of my brow" was inspired long before Amazon existed. I only wish the sweat/ice boxes jobs I had had payed similarly to what Amazon does. I'd have jumped ship in a heartbeat. Amazon warehouses still pay more than what I currently make. If one was close by and I could get hired, I could easily afford the Carhartt's and personal cooling devices that would mitigate the extreme temperatures I've dealt with most of my working life.

I live in the south and the summers are hot and humid. Everyone is talking about the heatwave that is baking the south. Our high today was 99 with 92% humidity and it is the norm here. I have seen it hit 115 multiple times over the years. I used to work at a major trucking company distribution center when I was a lot younger. This was in the '70's and when I started, they paid $9.75 an hour. Three years later, it was $13.75 an hour. Minimum wage back then was $1.90 an hour. Sure, it was hot sweaty work in the summer and cold freezing work in the winter. You also had to do a lot of manual labor (nothing gets on or off the trucks by itself. It could also be dangerous. I once crawled through a trailer loaded with rolls of razor sharp spring steel that had been loaded incorrectly and had shifted. I also had to the hospital, along with everyone else when we had a very dangerous hazardous material spill. I have never understood the poor mistreated Amazon Workforce. No one is forcing anyone to work. If you don't like it quit and find another job. I was making great money for the area and time and considered myself lucky to have that job. I also drove 15 miles to another town to get to work. They paid me well and I showed my appreciation by working my ass off. I did quit, but it wasn't because I felt I was being taken advantage of. I quit because I had the opportunity to get into my current line of work which I love.
Apache

[DiapDealer]

I think a big part of the "poor Amazon workers" thing is people not really understanding what many manual labor jobs actually entail. They hear about sweaty and freezing conditions and just can't relate. Sweating for your pay is not cruel and unusual punishment. People do it all the time. But the average manual laborer isn't running to the press because their feet got cold in the winter. But mention they work for Amazon and you'd think they were being beaten with rubber hoses.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I think a big part of the "poor Amazon workers" thing is people not really understanding what many manual labor jobs actually entail. They hear about sweaty and freezing conditions and just can't relate. Sweating for your pay is not cruel and unusual punishment. People do it all the time. But the average manual laborer isn't running to the press because their feet got cold in the winter. But mention they work for Amazon and you'd think they were being beaten with rubber hoses.

I think that's a bit myopic and preachy.

In a state with a low cost of living, yeah, Amazon is probably a fine place to work. In a state with a high cost of living like New York or California where Amazon is paying the same amount, maybe not so much.

Amazon has some really great benefits. But they also had a 150% turnover rate in their warehouses and 'unregretted attrition' and their cutthroat corporate culture.

I don't think Amazon is the Great Satan. But I also don't feel the need to run down their critics or imply they are all liars/whiners either.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Amazon has some really great benefits. But they also had a 150% turnover rate in their warehouses and 'unregretted attrition' and their cutthroat corporate culture.

My son applied to an a Amazon warehouse recently, after talking to some of our delivery guys about how it was to work for them. He applied online, and was immediately give a START DATE. No interview, no nothing, just come and work (pending drug and background check). We spoke to a "candidate support" person about this bizarre process, and she said that they don't mind turnover and they know the warehouse work is not for everyone
They prefer interested folks just come do the work, and see if the environment is for them or not. If not, no hard feelings, quit, and if you change your mind, you can come back again. You can choose to only work a few shifts, keeping any existing job, and see how it works for you. It's a bizarre process to us traditionalists, and my son decide not to try it, but I would not read much into the turnover rate with a process like that.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I think that's a bit myopic and preachy.

If it's preachy to note that physically demanding jobs are always going to have a high turnover rate (regardless of whose name's on the shingle) then so be it. Some thrive in such environments, and some wilt. Most just work the gig until something they like better comes along. Same as it ever was.

[John F]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I think that's a bit myopic and preachy.

In a state with a low cost of living, yeah, Amazon is probably a fine place to work. In a state with a high cost of living like New York or California where Amazon is paying the same amount, maybe not so much.

...

Are you sure they are paying the same amount, doing a quick google, zip recruiter says they are different.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salarie...n-Manhattan,NY

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salarie...ry--in-Alabama

[cfrizz]

Let's use some common sense here and deal with realities. If you decide you WANT to work in a warehouse, then realize that it is hard, back breaking work in poor conditions and ALWAYS very low pay. It's NOT rocket science and no special education is required. Just the power of your body. If you chose to do this kind of work, then don't bitch about it.

Of course, these jobs are going to have very high turnover. But a lot of places do. Especially at entry level jobs. You're not supposed to be there forever! Hospitals have huge turnovers depending on the job. Corporate America is cutthroat because they are trying to stay in business, they aren't there to appease your being taken advantage of feelings.

Salaries are going to be different depending on where in the country/state you work in and the cost of living is different. If you expect to make in any state down south that you make in NY you are delusional! I doubt the salaries are the same for upstate NY vs Manhattan!

No matter where you live, if you want to make more money than minimum wage, then you either better go to college or study a trade that will allow you to come out and get a decent starting salary with room to grow or change jobs as your skills grow.

That is the reality of the world we live in!

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

If it's preachy to note that physically demanding jobs are always going to have a high turnover rate (regardless of whose name's on the shingle) then so be it...

That's fine. But you are going from being a common sense commenter to someone who is a cheerleader for a company.

Also, the comment that started this thread of the conversation was NOT about warehouse jobs in particular. It was steered that way as describing that sort of work more closely fits a narrative.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by John F

Are you sure they are paying the same amount, doing a quick google, zip recruiter says they are different.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salarie...n-Manhattan,NY

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salarie...ry--in-Alabama

Okay. But then there's also this:

Minimum wage Alabama - $7.25 per hour
Minimum wage Manhattan - $15.00 per hour

So an Amazon job in Alabama is much more appealing than an Amazon job in Manhattan.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Okay. But then there's also this:

Minimum wage Alabama - $7.25 per hour
Minimum wage Manhattan - $15.00 per hour

So an Amazon job in Alabama is much more appealing than an Amazon job in Manhattan.

The co$t of living for those 2 place is on opposite ends of the scale.
There are a number of factors that drive wages.

What gets me is the employers that take advantage of folk so desperate for ANY JOB, they pay low ball pay and benrfits (what bene's. Part timers do not get bene's. Limit full timers )

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

That's fine. But you are going from being a common sense commenter to someone who is a cheerleader for a company.

And there it is. One has to be either an Amazon hater or a cheerleader. There can be no middle ground. The Kindle section is full of Amazon bashing that I never address, but I'm the cheerleader.

I join in whenever unreasonable/uncorroborated/irrational criticism of corporations takes place. I'm way more invested in the Google/Android ecosystem than I ever was Amazon's. The only thing I'm a cheerleader for is pointing out irrational anti-corporation polemic.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by theducks

The co$t of living for those 2 place is on opposite ends of the scale.
There are a number of factors that drive wages.

Yes. That is what I was saying.