Breaking news: Water is wet, study finds

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I don't get one thing. All this talk about ads... site ads? Pop-up ads? I never see any. Sometimes I spend most of the day online, reading news, visiting lots of websites, doing Google searches etc, yet still without seeing a single ad.

(Of course, I use Adblock and update its filters regularly - I guess that's the reason? But surely I'm not the only one here using it).

I don't use an ad-blocker myself. If I encounter a site where normal navigation becomes a chore because of jumping, blinking, popping, moving, ad content, I just don't frequent that site any more. But "normal," well-behaved ads on the side? They don't bother me at all.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I'm going to take some time to come up with a topic that I can (hopefully) "control" around my devices to see what happens. Sounds like fun (if ultimately pointless--for me anyway) experiment.

Well, I started. I likely look like a crazy person muttering the phrase "vegan Italian food" as I wander around my house.

I'll report back with further updates, but I did get the attached already.

Isn't it equally likely they both made posts on Facebook about being back from Japan on the day in question? Or checked in using their phones when they left for Japan?

Read the article. I'd say it is not likely as it doesn't sound like the two people were in Japan together or at the same time ("our recent trips") yet both got ads the day after discussing their trips together.

Further, that is only the beginning of the article. The author then sez:

Twice a day for five days, I tried saying a bunch of phrases that could theoretically be used as triggers. Phrases like I’m thinking about going back to uni and I need some cheap shirts for work. Then I carefully monitored the sponsored posts on Facebook for any changes.

The changes came literally overnight. Suddenly I was being told mid-semester courses at various universities, and how certain brands were offering cheap clothing. A private conversation with a friend about how I’d run out of data led to an ad about cheap 20 GB data plans.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I don't get one thing. All this talk about ads... site ads? Pop-up ads? I never see any. Sometimes I spend most of the day online, reading news, visiting lots of websites, doing Google searches etc, yet still without seeing a single ad.

(Of course, I use Adblock and update its filters regularly - I guess that's the reason? But surely I'm not the only one here using it).

I use the default Google launcher for Android. On there, if you swipe right on the home screen, a news feed opens up. Also, when I open Google News I will see things.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by jhowell

It could have been a coincidence. We tend to notice things only when they are relevant.

Could be. I'm not a conspiracy minded person and will give coincidence a lot of credence. But again, I am talking about specific instances of things I otherwise do not have an interest in popping up soon after discussing them.

And there are other ways your interest could have been noticed besides your speakers listening to you. You were reading and posting about the topic on the web here on MobileRead.

But I use Firefox as my browser on my desktop, the only time I visit Mobileread (I had to email my screenshots to myself to post them here). I also use ad blockers and have Bing as my search engine, not Google.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I use the default Google launcher for Android. On there, if you swipe right on the home screen, a news feed opens up. Also, when I open Google News I will see things.

Thanks. Yeah, I don't use Google News or the news feed on the home screen of my Android phone.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Read the article. I'd say it is not likely as it doesn't sound like the two people were in Japan together or at the same time ("our recent trips") yet both got ads the day after discussing their trips together.

I DID read it--before I posted. Which part eliminated the possibility that they weren't there together (or at the same time)?

Regardless: Two friends... Both use Facebook, both traveled to Japan recently. I find it hard to believe that two friends on Facebook never used the Facebook medium to discuss their trips to Japan. Or shared pictures of their trips with each other via Facebook during said conversation.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I guess so.

Perhaps you can point this proof out to me. Hopefully the quote feature will make this not too burdensome a favor to ask?

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

N
And I do not see privacy related stories pop-up, as it is never something I've searched for or showed an interest in.

I'll try Italian Vegan Food today.

Meanwhile, here's a couple of articles:
Your Phone Is Listening and it's Not Paranoia


Is your phone listening in? Your stories

I'm likely to try the experiment myself, if I can think of some good control topics, that I haven't seen ads for before and haven't explored online.


As for your privacy ads, you do realize you have been typing about that for a couple days now, on a public internet forum using some sort of browser?

Occam's razor might suggest that's more likely where any ad targeting is coming from.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Regardless: Two friends... Both use Facebook, both traveled to Japan recently. I find it hard to believe that two friends on Facebook never used the Facebook medium to discuss their trips to Japan. Or shared pictures of their trips with each other via Facebook during said conversation.

But you don't address the follow up experiments. Why?

And I have gotten an ad for vegan food delivery.

For fun and to give myself something further to say, I'm now combining vegan Italian food with scuba diving (another hobby I have no interest in and have not searched for).

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

But you don't address the follow up experiments. Why?

Other than stopping as soon as I encountered things that could be explained without conceding the article's premise, no reason. I just hadn't got there yet. *shrug*

I've been having imaginary conversations in the presence of my Amazon and Google listening devices all morning (Echo, Fire Tablet, Pixel phone) about a niche sport that I have zero interest in. One that I have never spoken about, or searched for before. So far, nothing.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by ApK

As for your privacy ads, you do realize you have been typing about that for a couple days now, on a public internet forum using some sort of browser?

Occam's razor might suggest that's more likely where any ad targeting is coming from.

So Google is tracking me from Firefox on a work computer routed through a VPN showing me in New Jersey and Firefox on my desktop and has figured out that this user name corresponds with my Google ID on my phone and then waiting until I also speak about it in person before feeding me ads?

Or: the Google speaker in my house that are built to listen do listen?

Why have I not gotten ads based on other thing I have mentioned on this board but not had reason to discuss in front of my speakers? Where are the ads for sword and sorcery stories? Or ads for Kobo devices?

I don't think Occam's razor is cutting the same way you do.

Incidentally, there's no dispute that the various assistants, Google Siri, Alexa do listen all the time. That is why they are able to 'wake up' when you give a voice command.

The only real question is if the multi-billion dollar ad companies behind at least Google and Alexa are telling you the truth when they say those other conversations are not analyzed.

And hey, if you want to believe an advertiser...

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by ApK

I'm likely to try the experiment myself, if I can think of some good control topics, that I haven't seen ads for before and haven't explored online.

I have some suggestions for anyone attempting this sort of experiment to help eliminate confounding factors that could influence the results.

Decide in advance how many days you will be collecting data. If you leave it open ended the chances increase of a spurious result.

Select the subject topic ahead of time, but do not tell anyone else what it is or post about it online.

Before mentioning the topic in front of your device monitor your ads for that subject for the number of days that you have decided on. That will be your control sample. You may be surprised to learn that you have been getting ads for all kinds of things that you never noticed because they are on no interest to you. If your test subject comes up then count that as a miss.

Discuss the topic in front of your device. Take special care not to mention the trigger word or anything close to it.

Now monitor ads again for the predetermined number of days and see what comes up.

Realize that the occurrence of a hit could be coincidence. You will need to repeat the test a number of times counting hits and misses before you can draw any real conclusions.

[ZodWallop]

This just showed up.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

This just showed up.

Are you considering an article comparing vegetarian and meat eating children to be a hit against the topic of vegan Italian food?

[ApK]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

So Google is tracking me from Firefox on a work computer routed through a VPN showing me in New Jersey and Firefox on my desktop and has figured out that this user name corresponds with my Google ID on my phone

Possibly. Have you confirmed no leak of info, no possible tracking cookies from anywhere you've ever identified yourself or even just accessed from both systems, and you trust your VPN* provider, Mozilla, and all your OS makers to be far more secure, honest and respectful of their terms of use than the maker of your speaker?

and then waiting until I also speak about it in person before feeding me ads?

Or at least that's when you noticed them.

Or: the Google speaker in my house that are built to listen do listen?

Just pointing out that your anecdotal evidence is far from proof.

Incidentally, there's no dispute that the various assistants, Google Siri, Alexa do listen all the time. That is why they are able to 'wake up' when you give a voice command.

Obviously, that would be more 'water is wet' news. Clearly no one is arguing about that.

The only real question is if the multi-billion dollar ad companies behind at least Google and Alexa are telling you the truth when they say those other conversations are not analyzed.

For them to analyze it, they'd have to capture it and send it home, rather than doing just that with local processing as they claim.
Indeed, as I said, I would be concerned if there was proof they were lying about that. Companies should not make false claims like that, whether it be regarding privacy, or fees, or warranty support, or product sourcing, or most any other promise they make.

But also think about this: A large company with a huge dependency on customer trust outright lies to the public regarding the capturing and transmission of private audio, opening them up to bankrupting levels of civil and criminal penalties all for the purpose of....getting a little more ad revenue for offering slightly more relevant 3rd party ads???
One would think they could be using this contract-violating, criminal wire tapping for more substantial illicit activities, and if so, the last thing they would do is expose it by using it to show you an add for something you just talked about.

Where are the hardware hackers who de-compile the firmware, and analyze packet data exposing all this? It can barely understand it's own name when spoken to it, but this nefarious code is so expertly designed and implemented that no once can find it?

I'm not stating it's impossible, I just need more than anecdotal evidence to accept it as fact.

ApK

*Just an aside, here's a good introductory vid for anyone relying on commercial VPNs for privacy protection:

[ApK]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I have some suggestions for anyone attempting this sort of experiment to help eliminate confounding factors that could influence the results.

Decide in advance how many days you will be collecting data. If you leave it open ended the chances increase of a spurious result.

Select the subject topic ahead of time, but do not tell anyone else what it is or post about it online.

Before mentioning the topic in front of your device monitor your ads for that subject for the number of days that you have decided on. That will be your control sample. You may be surprised to learn that you have been getting ads for all kinds of things that you never noticed because they are on no interest to you. If your test subject comes up then count that as a miss.

Discuss the topic in front of your device. Take special care not to mention the trigger word or anything close to it.

Now monitor ads again for the predetermined number of days and see what comes up.

Realize that the occurrence of a hit could be coincidence. You will need to repeat the test a number of times counting hits and misses before you can draw any real conclusions.

I might add wearing a tin-foil hat for those few days to avoid the possibility they are shaping targeted ads via telepathy. ;-) Kidding. That does sound like a pretty good experiment.

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

This just showed up.

That's pretty good. But even if we grant that you're totally on the up and up, and that add is due to targeting and not coincidence, I do have to point out again, you talked about veganism here on the forum. That still seems like a more likely source of the data.