[Editor Plugin] Diap's Editing Toolbag

[Brett Merkey]

@theducks,
<<Calibre has a CONSISTENT interface.>>

Calibre has a commendably consistent interface, given its open architecture and flexibility. And as for real working value and supported features, it and its army of plug-in coders blow everything else off the map.

[Rev. Bob]

Originally Posted by Brett Merkey

@theducks,
<<Calibre has a CONSISTENT interface.>>

Calibre has a commendably consistent interface, given its open architecture and flexibility. And as for real working value and supported features, it and its army of plug-in coders blow everything else off the map.

Consistent, yes - but I do agree with the earlier criticism that the little "this button has a pulldown menu" arrow is very easy to miss if you're not looking for or expecting to see it. I missed it for quite a while in the "review downloaded metadata" window.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by Brett Merkey

@Diap,
<<It's all open source, though. So feel free to fork the github repo, and make it as user friendly as you want. I truly won't mind.>>

In our modern world, everything is open source...

We don't live in the same world, obviously

[dwig]

Originally Posted by Brett Merkey

@theducks,
<<Calibre has a CONSISTENT interface.>>

Calibre has a commendably consistent interface, given its open architecture and flexibility. And as for real working value and supported features, it and its army of plug-in coders blow everything else off the map.

True, but "consistent" doesn't necessarily equal "good".

In the case of this plugin, it is rather poor. When you access the menu and click on the option the menu collapses and you don't see the effect. You have to reaccess the menu to see that the option is now checked. Also, when you click on the main button there is absolutely no indication of the state of the option. Again, a bad thing that could cause you to make a massive change you did not intend.

The plugin should abandon the drop down and move the option for operating on the current file or all files to either a check box or option list in the plugin's main dialog. That way it is easy to see the current state, easy to change the current state, and makes the presence of the option obvious.

The little "menu" arrow does indicate that there is some option, but doesn't indicate what option(s) are available. The user has to explore the menu on the off chance that some option may be available that will affect their useage.

[Terisa de morgan]

If you don't mind, some of us like the plugin design as is.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by dwig

True, but "consistent" doesn't necessarily equal "good".

In the case of this plugin, it is rather poor. When you access the menu and click on the option the menu collapses and you don't see the effect. You have to reaccess the menu to see that the option is now checked. Also, when you click on the main button there is absolutely no indication of the state of the option. Again, a bad thing that could cause you to make a massive change you did not intend.

The plugin should abandon the drop down and move the option for operating on the current file or all files to either a check box or option list in the plugin's main dialog. That way it is easy to see the current state, easy to change the current state, and makes the presence of the option obvious.

The little "menu" arrow does indicate that there is some option, but doesn't indicate what option(s) are available. The user has to explore the menu on the off chance that some option may be available that will affect their useage.

Patches welcome. I don't care enough to change it. Maybe someone who does care enough will donate their time and share it with everyone.

Just curious how you deal with not knowing what options are available on calibre's drop-down menus (on the main menu) before you click them?

[dwig]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

...

Just curious how you deal with not knowing what options are available on calibre's drop-down menus (on the main menu) before you click them?

Perhaps I wasn't clear. My biggest issue with the UI is that even after you've become experienced with the plugin, you don't know the current state of the option without opening the menu. This adds an extra step when you first use the plugin in a particular editing session. It is quite unsafe to click the button without first opening the menu to check the current state. This, added to the fact that you have no confirmation that you've actually clicked accurately enough on the menu to toggle the state rather than missing slightly and just collapsing the menu with no change, makes the UI design unnecessarily difficult to use reliably.

A visible control in the main dialog would be far better design. That way every time you open the dialog you can clearly see the current state of operation. You would also have reliable visible indication that you actually toggled the current setting.

A visible control in the main UI is the method used by calibre's editor's Find & Replace panel so such UI would be quite consistent with other established calibre UI.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by dwig

It is quite unsafe to click the button without first opening the menu to check the current state.

Actually, given the checkpoints and the visual diff ... nothing this plugin does can accurately be labeled as "quite unsafe" (unless you choose to skip the diff and option to revert, and ignore the available checkpoints after discovering a problem). *shrug*

Originally Posted by dwig

This, added to the fact that you have no confirmation that you've actually clicked accurately enough on the menu to toggle the state rather than missing slightly and just collapsing the menu with no change, makes the UI design unnecessarily difficult to use reliably.

That sounds a little paranoid to me. If you click anywhere on the submenu (it changes color when the mouse is in the right place), and the submenu goes away, then you've toggled the state. You can't click on the submenu without SOMETHING happening (you've toggled the state or opened the tag config dialog). You could miss entirely, I guess, but how likely is that?

[BetterRed]

I don't have any idea what you're all on about, what menu, what drop down. Can someone post a screen shot please?

Note: because I avoid using a mouse, I don't use toolbars, this is what I see in the Plugins menu



If I had to criticise anything it's that I have to work out via elimination where the options come from. IMO the DET options should be grouped in a flyout menu

Aside - one of the reasons I stopped using calibre's library mgt toolbars (without icons even) is that I could never intuit why some buttons had drop downs and others didn't. No need to explain why, I know why, but IMO the rationale is obscure - i.e. non intuitive.

BR

[dwig]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

... You could miss entirely, I guess, but how likely is that?

Likely enough that it happens to me 2-4 times a week in one program or another. I miss my click either because I aimed wrong or I nudged the mouse while pressing the mouse button. Maybe its old age in general or an early early sign in Parkinson's. Either way, it happens and it is a concern when the UI leaves no visual confirmation.

The only advantage to the current UI is that it is the way the plugin is currently coded and effort would be necessary to change it. I fully understand reluctance to make a change. I spent a long time in the software business designing functionality & then related UI, resolving user issues with existing functionality & UI, and designing the quality assurance systems to verify that code works as designed.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

I don't have any idea what you're all on about, what menu, what drop down. Can someone post a screen shot please?

View->Toolbars->Plugins Toobar (Looks like you've got none of the toolbars checked)

Visible tools icons are configurable in Preferences->Toolbars->Bookwide tools from third party plugins

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by dwig

Likely enough that it happens to me 2-4 times a week in one program or another. I miss my click either because I aimed wrong or I nudged the mouse while pressing the mouse button. Maybe its old age in general or an early early sign in Parkinson's. Either way, it happens and it is a concern when the UI leaves no visual confirmation.

I've been baffled by the complaints because every application I use daily either has a drop-down attached to a toolbar button or a menu item used to indicate a option. The latter has been part of the user interface for as long as I can remember. I'm pretty sure it was included in original the CUA specs that have been the influencing UI design for the last 30 years.

For the menu item, a lot do have have an action when the check is changed (in Firefox, View->Toolbar - clicking one displays or removes a toolbar), but as many don't (in Firefox, View->Zoom->Zoom Text Only - clicking changes the option but affects what happens the next time you change the zoom level)

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

View->Toolbars->Plugins Toobar (Looks like you've got none of the toolbars checked)

Visible tools icons are configurable in Preferences->Toolbars->Bookwide tools from third party plugins

Due to injury I find using the mouse difficult (to click or to hover), so I regard toolbars, particularly must-click iconic toolbars, as a waste of space.

IMO if the DET functions are to have drop down menus on toolbar icons, then the equivalent menu items should have flyout menus.

If an icon is not well-known or bleedin' obvious then an icon's purpose is often difficult to intuit; a'la Sigil's power-plugs that look like granny's flat-irons. In this instance, it would help if the order in which the plugin tools are shown in the menu and on the toolbar were the same.

Does Sigil's Tag Mechanic, which what I normally use to fix spans etc, have this drop down issue. I don't show tool bars in Sigil either.

BR

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

IMO if the DET functions are to have drop down menus on toolbar icons, then the equivalent menu items should have flyout menus.

So far as I know, the Tool Plugin framework gives me no control over the Plugin menu behavior (at least it didn't at the time the plugin was created—that could have changed since). The configuration option would indeed exist in both places (fly-out menu and toolbar dropdown) if it did.

EDIT: actually, it looks as if I can easily add the configuration option to the plugin menu. I'll get that change made. Just be aware that even though there'll be a fly-out menu on the plugin menu entry, it will still be the same terribly inefficient, horribly unintuitive, (not to mention impossible to find) check-box that's on the Toolbar's dropdown menu. But at least you'll have all the options without having to use the Toolbar.

Originally Posted by BetterRed

If an icon is not well-known or bleedin' obvious then an icon's purpose is often difficult to intuit; a'la Sigil's power-plugs that look like granny's flat-irons.

Still on about not knowing what a power cord (the plug end) looks like, eh? What flat-iron ever had two prongs sticking out the side?

Originally Posted by BetterRed

In this instance, it would help if the order in which the plugin tools are shown in the menu and on the toolbar were the same.

Reorder the icons in the Toolbar (through the Editor's Toolbar preferences) to match the order they show up in the menu then. I, as a plugin developer, have no control over the latter (looks alphabetical to me). You, as a user, have control over the former.

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Does Sigil's Tag Mechanic, which what I normally use to fix spans etc, have this drop down issue. I don't show tool bars in Sigil either.

No. Sigil's version has no separate config for choosing which files the plugin operates on. The html files that are selected in the Book Browser when the plugin is launched are the ones that are affected. The very first bolded list-item in the Sigil equivalent's support thead states:

1) This plugin operates on the Text files selected/highlighted in Sigil's Book Browser, so make sure you highlight the files you want to work with before launching the plugin.

I know written instructions aren't cool anymore. That everything that's not immediately intuitable (by all sentient creatures) by merely glancing at a UI is deemed an interface failure in this day and age, but ... . I'm still a firm believer in RTFM (however poorly written, insufficient and inconvenient that M may be).

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

So far as I know, the Tool Plugin framework gives me no control over the Plugin menu behavior (at least it didn't at the time the plugin was created—that could have changed since). The configuration option would indeed exist in both places (fly-out menu and toolbar dropdown) if it did.

Just FYI. Editor plugin items can show a submenu for both a Tool button and a Plugin menu item. A few of my own have a Config option which shows up in both places.