The Wrong Goodbye of Barnes and Noble

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by wizwor

Ethical<>Legal. Ethics are open to interpretation. People who work solely on ethics are vulnerable to the law and competing ethics.

Which is where the personal responsability part comes in.
You decide what to do and you own the outcome.
Law is also open to interpretation, btw. That is at the heart of common law legal systems.
http://ppp.worldbank.org/public-priv...n-vs-civil-law

Having a personal code of ethic is nothing special: everybody has one.
The law is just the code the state wants you to live by; morality is what the community wants you to live by, but ethics is what you *choose* to live by.
Living to the code of the law *only* is surrendering personal choice and personal responsability, especially in states with Napoleonic Law ("Everything not expressly permitted is forbidden").
Combine the two and you get good little serfs.

And getting back on topic, B&N's customer service is run on Napoleonic law with the phone bank staff scripts requiring special variances and escalation for all but the most trivial issues. They don't trust their staff much apparently, nor the customers.

As to exploration and discovery of new books, there is this to consider:
http://activitypress.com/2012/11/30/...=Google+Reader

A Bowker study found 19% of people rely on bookstores for their new reads. That is somewhat less than the number that actually buys their books there instead of other sources. To me it reinforces the point that bookstores (and B&N) are important but hardly irreplaceable. It's all about personal choice in the end.

[ucfgrad93]

I don't see a problem with stripping the DRM for your own private use. I just recently had to do it because of ereader.com shutting down. B&N has been totally inept at importing my books from there. As a result, I did it myself. I was able to download my books and remove the DRM so I can read them on my Kindle. All of the ebooks I have were legally purchased.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by ucfgrad93

B&N has been totally inept at importing my books from there. As a result, I did it myself.

I've been following that thread (going on 600 posts) in wide-eyed amusement.
Even when B&N tries to do the right thing they find ways to make things worse for themselves.

I give them credit for trying to do right by the Fictionwise customers but the credit gets wiped out by the process they chose to follow to transfer the license. It's not exactly Byzantine but it is bizarre: they are essentially using a Purchase Order system to "buy" Nook licenses for their Fictionwise customers and somehow failing to deliver their own content to themselves.

[GlennD]

Originally Posted by Sregener

It would pay to educate yourselves about copyright law. It was established law in the 1980s that making a backup copy of a music cassette you purchased was illegal - in effect, if you wore out the tape you bought, you were legally obligated to buy a second copy of it, and making a "backup" copy for yourself was a violation of copyright. And making a cassette copy of a vinyl album was also against the law, because you changed the format of the copyrighted work - it was no longer on the media type you purchased.

That may have been true in the 80s. But, the Audio Home Recording Act in 1992 created an exemption for home taping. You are allowed to format shift audio recordings for personal use.

How that affects (or doesn't) the ebooks that we all love has been a subject of much debate on these forums.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by GlennD

That may have been true in the 80s. But, the Audio Home Recording Act in 1992 created an exemption for home taping. You are allowed to format shift audio recordings for personal use.

There is also a long standing precedent of archival copies of books, and backup copies of software both being fair use.

Originally Posted by GlennD

How that affects (or doesn't) the ebooks that we all love has been a subject of much debate on these forums.

Indeed.

[GlennD]

I sure hope Barnes and Noble doesn't fail. I may be a rarity but I don't miss independent stores at all. My reading interests are primarily scifi/fantasy....if I go to a bookstore I want as large a selection of books to browse as possible. The big bookstores can provide that, the little independents can't. If I want something specialized I'll go through Amazon. If I'm looking for entertaining reading I'd prefer to spend an hour looking through a ton of books.

That's for new books - I do love the independent used book stores, because you simply never know what you'll find on a given day. Unfortunately (and a little ironically) I live in Vancouver, about twenty minutes from Powell's books. Powell's has pretty much destroyed the used book market in the area.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by GlennD

I sure hope Barnes and Noble doesn't fail. I may be a rarity but I don't miss independent stores at all. My reading interests are primarily scifi/fantasy....if I go to a bookstore I want as large a selection of books to browse as possible. The big bookstores can provide that, the little independents can't.

That isn't necessarily true. The trick is to find the independent bookstore that specializes in specific genre(s). Mysterious Galaxy, for example, has more lineal feet of science fiction than my local Barnes & Noble, but at least a factor of two (and as much in mysteries, to boot). But nothing else.

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by taustin

That isn't necessarily true. The trick is to find the independent bookstore that specializes in specific genre(s). Mysterious Galaxy, for example, has more lineal feet of science fiction than my local Barnes & Noble, but at least a factor of two (and as much in mysteries, to boot). But nothing else.

Yep... My local indie, Powell's Books in downtown Portland, has more books by a factor of 5 or 6. There's no way I could compare the choices with my local B&N.

[GlennD]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Yep... My local indie, Powell's Books in downtown Portland, has more books by a factor of 5 or 6. There's no way I could compare the choices with my local B&N.

Powell's is an oddity even by indie standards though. I've never been in a bookstore even close to its size - you have to grab a map on the way in to find your way around. I've literally gotten completely lost in that building.

The big issue I have with them is that they're SO large and so popular that the sections that I'm interested in have been picked over. When I'm looking for that 80s printing of a Moorcock book with the Whelan cover, the fact they have a million and one used McCaffrey books doesn't impress me. I'm sure they get 'good' stuff but you'd have to be local enough to stop in frequently. (I'm twenty minutes or so away but it's pretty inconvenient to drive to. But then, I hate driving in Portland. ) I find their selection of new books (again I mainly look at scifi) to be not better at all than the local Barnes and Noble.

That being said, any book lover who finds themself in Portland needs to stop at Powells at least once and plan a day of it. And bring breadcrumbs....

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by GlennD

Powell's is an oddity even by indie standards though. I've never been in a bookstore even close to its size - you have to grab a map on the way in to find your way around. I've literally gotten completely lost in that building.

Hmmm... Yes.

I'm about 30 minutes away, but I've learned to use their web search engine. That searches through *all* their inventory, including warehouses, and then have the books delivered for pickup at the Beaverton satellite store which is much closer. Yes, you can't check out the covers, but then I'm not a cover collector.

And yes again. If any of you get into Portland, Oregon, check out Powell's World of Books. 3 stories (2 1/2?), one full square city block. And yes, grab a map at the door.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by GlennD

The big bookstores can provide that, the little independents can't.

Depends. The B&N closest to me used to have good SciFi/Fantasy and Mystery/Thriller sections many years ago, but now they're tiny just like all the other sections of the store. If I'm looking for a big selection I'm better off making the trek to indie Uncle Hugo's/Uncle Edgar's.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by GlennD

Powell's is an oddity even by indie standards though. I've never been in a bookstore even close to its size - you have to grab a map on the way in to find your way around. I've literally gotten completely lost in that building.

Now you remind me of Acres of Books, which is now gone, and Bookman, which is still there. Both started small, and took over their entire strip mall. Acres was mildly dangerous in places, because as they took over more and more buildings, they just knocked holes in the walls between for doorways, and some of the aisles were about 18 inches wide.

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by taustin

That isn't necessarily true. The trick is to find the independent bookstore that specializes in specific genre(s). Mysterious Galaxy, for example, has more lineal feet of science fiction than my local Barnes & Noble, but at least a factor of two (and as much in mysteries, to boot). But nothing else.

Uncle Hugo's in Minneapolis specializes in science fiction and fantasy. There's a huge selection. There's Uncle Edgar's (It's really the same store, one side is Uncle Hugo's, the other side is Uncle Edgar's) specializes in fantasy. An independent store can succeed by not being all things to all persons.

[Fbone]

It's great that some have a good independent book store locally but for the rest of us ....

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by Fbone

It's great that some have a good independent book store locally but for the rest of us ....

If the big box era comes to and end, indies could make a comeback. And if there's a market for these specialized stores, someone can fill it. I can't see that Minneapolis is the only place that could have a store dedicated to science fiction, for example. One strength Uncle Hugo's has is that they employees really know their stuff. A friend of mine was looking for a book and didn't know the title or the author, only a vague description. He had the book in his hand in less than a minute. Picking the right employees can make all the difference in a business.