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[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I believe those ads are placed by others selling that product through Amazon. They are probably hoping you won’t like the coffee maker that you already bought and will return it and try another brand.

Perhaps though there’s been the occasion where I get an email advertising the same exact item I purchased, and not one you’d need multiple of either. This also wasn’t the whole “please review your blah blah blah with whoever” email you occasionally get.

I suspect certain sellers just pay Amazon a fee to email members who’ve browsed on their product for a given period of time. Amazon probably doesn’t care if you went on to buy the item nor what the item was. You spent X time looking you get an email in a few days. As far as Amazon is concerned they did what they were paid to do and maybe they get you back on the site to look at other things to buy. Win win for them. The customer likely won’t stop using Amazon over it. And the seller got what they paid for even if it wasn’t worth it in that particular case.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I talk in front of Alexa all the time, but with the mic turned off.

To me, the convience of the speakers go out the window if you turn the speaker off.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

[...] And perhaps you drew more of my attention on this than you really deserved, I've just seen one side insist the other must have ignorant members. While the other side has not demeaned the other at all.

I'm sure that in gross general terms there are people who are unaware of the situation, but I'm equally sure that there are people who are overly paranoid. However until those who are actually engaged in the debate demonstrate either of these qualities neither is worth bandying about.

Certainly the word paranoia has been used, also needing to live in a cave, also posts indicating the desire for privacy is laughable. None of that was demeaning?

But I don't really care about that. I was more concerned with the idea that we have no choice, that if we want to be online at all then our privacy is lost completely. And one problem with this idea, besides being wrong, it doesn't have to be all or nothing, is that it alters how we might interpret the "don't care" response. Is it "I don't care enough to live off the grid", or is it "I don't care even if there are options that offer more control over my privacy", or some middle ground?

DiapDealer and a few others have indicated fairly clearly it is the latter, they like targeted advertising and are not concerned about the risks of abuse. But how widespread is? (Indeed, it begs the question of how useful targeted advertising actually is, but that's another discussion.)

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

To me, the convience of the speakers go out the window if you turn the speaker off.

I keep my Show 5 within arm's reach during the day, so it's easy to turn it on and off as needed. Additionally, I prefer using the touch screen to surf favorite radio stations (broadcast and net-based).

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Meanwhile Facebook is serving me adds for rings, bracelets, necklaces, and (I kid you not) Japanese style pants.

I generally wear jeans bought from a local mom and pop shop. I don’t wear jewelry unless you count an Apple Watch with a silicone band as jewelry.

Twitter serves me up sports news, and gambling sites. I don’t care about sports beyond a very basic yay home team, and I don’t gamble legally or otherwise.

Google does serve me up some relevant ads on occasion though generally Google.com is more often just the generic Google logo with empty search under it. All the ads are for things I’ve spent a decent amount of time searching and looking at online.

Amazon emails me reconditions for items after I’ve purchased them or if I’ve spent a good chunk of time searching and looking at specific results.

I’m not exactly quivering in my boots here, if there’s some grand conspiracy its left arm doesn’t know what its right arm is doing, it’s got two left feet, and it’s blindfolded and gagged.

Read my earlier posts. I have six Google speakers and one Alexa Show (it was a gift. I'd prefer the Google one). My point is just that Google and Alexa listen to you at all times, whether you speak the keyword or no.

I don’t have any of the various smart speakers, but I do use Siri on my iPhone from time to time. I’d presume this operates under a similar enough fashion that I should see some results if they’re using it to spy on me. If they are I guess they’re not interested in selling me anything or can’t figure out what they can sell me based on what they might have captured.

I'm not an Apple fan, but in this case Apple doesn't make their money from ads (like Google) or sell you crap (well, except for more Apple crap). And Apple's figured out they can make a big deal out of protecting user's privacy.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by gmw

Certainly the word paranoia has been used, also needing to live in a cave, also posts indicating the desire for privacy is laughable. None of that was demeaning?

But I don't really care about that. I was more concerned with the idea that we have no choice, that if we want to be online at all then our privacy is lost completely. And one problem with this idea, besides being wrong, it doesn't have to be all or nothing, is that it alters how we might interpret the "don't care" response. Is it "I don't care enough to live off the grid", or is it "I don't care even if there are options that offer more control over my privacy", or some middle ground?

DiapDealer and a few others have indicated fairly clearly it is the latter, they like targeted advertising and are not concerned about the risks of abuse. But how widespread is? (Indeed, it begs the question of how useful targeted advertising actually is, but that's another discussion.)

I’d say your own arguments prove you have a choice. Don’t like Google, use duck duck go. Don’t like gmail (which I suppose is really the same as the last but eh..) use proton mail. Clear your cookies regularly, though I’m sure you or someone else mentioned a security minded browser as well. Don’t like the tracking bits of social media don’t use social media or don’t connect it to something easily tracked back to you such as your name. Heck you don’t even need to give Twitter an email if you don’t want, occasionally you might need to force quit the app if it asks for one but that’s few and far between and you’re back in a second. Don’t like Alexa etc? Don’t use them.

Anything you can get off Amazon you can get elsewhere if you don’t trust Amazon.

But as Dd pointed out it’s going to be work for you (general you).

[gmw]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

I’d say your own arguments prove you have a choice. [...]

But as Dd pointed out it’s going to be work for you (general you).

I also submit that availability of choices demonstrates that in at least some contexts exploitation of privacy is not a necessary component of the service being offered. In those contexts it is not actually a choice between privacy and convenience, but between offering control and not offering it. And the larger providers do not offer control because their users do not demand it, not because it is not practicable.

And to look further, I submit that with more research and investment even more privacy friendly capabilities are possible - more things can be done while retaining convenience but without exploiting privacy - but these will be slow to happen without demand. Which brings us back to my earlier discussion with DiapDealer and the reason why people who do value their privacy would like to persuade others to do likewise. The extra work and cost required to retain privacy now is significantly increased because there is not enough support to drive the market to create it. The reverse is not true. People will still be free to broadcast their data as widely as they want and obtain whatever advantage* that that offers them.


* I suspect, but cannot prove, that some companies have been reluctant to improve privacy controls not only because they profit from the way they are now, but also because they fear that users will learn how little advantage privacy exploitation actually offers them.

[DiapDealer]

Neither me, nor my privacy are are being exploited.

But if you can force the market to bend to your will without making me lose any of the conveniences I value (or have to work harder to keep them), then have at it. It just seems to me that the crusades of the few should not dictate the experiences of the many. Humans haven't had the level of privacy control that you wish these corporations would start providing since we crawled out of caves.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

My point is just that Google and Alexa listen to you at all times, whether you speak the keyword or no.

Did I miss the proof of this?

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by ApK

Did I miss the proof of this?

I guess so.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

So the attached showed up in my Google feed. I haven't searched for this on any browser, but I did talk about this there's in front of Google's ever listening ears.

What's the "this" you're referring to? Last I heard, you were going to try to remember to speak about Italian Vegan food in the presence of connected mics.

Since I don't see any Italian vegan foods in the picture you shared of your feed, I have to assume you're talking about the "How to Remove Your Personal Info for Google's Servers" entry (or was it "red spherical objects"? ). If that's the case:

While it's certainly possible one of your connected mics picked up on your conversation, I can assure you that I see things like that (privacy-related) in my feeds all time. The difference being that words to that effect have never passed my lips--ever. Let alone in the presence of connected mics. Neither have I ever uttered things like "what are the symptoms of amyloidosis" or "which counties in Ohio are the best to retire in". Yet those and other "how to regain your privacy"-type articles are what tend to dominate my feeds and site ads.

Did you do the "Italian Vegan Food" experiment?

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

What's the "this" you're referring to? Last I heard, you were going to try to remember to speak about Italian Vegan food in the presence of connected mics.

Did you do the "Italian Vegan Food" experiment?

No, I was out and about all day yesterday, losing my patience with children. But I did talk about this thread and people's concerns about Google, privacy and what is stored.

And I do not see privacy related stories pop-up, as it is never something I've searched for or showed an interest in.

I'll try Italian Vegan Food today.

Meanwhile, here's a couple of articles:
Your Phone Is Listening and it's Not Paranoia

A friend and I were sitting at a bar, iPhones in pockets, discussing our recent trips in Japan and how we’d like to go back. The very next day, we both received pop-up ads on Facebook about cheap return flights to Tokyo.

Is your phone listening in? Your stories

We saw wedding ads before we announced our engagement

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

No, I was out and about all day yesterday, losing my patience with children. But I did talk about this thread and people's concerns about Google, privacy and what is stored.

And I do not see privacy related stories pop-up, as it is never something I've searched for or showed an interest in.

Fair enough. But as I mentioned, my experience is the opposite. I've never spoken about things like privacy concerns aloud (to myself or others). Mobileread is the only place a topic like that even comes up in my daily life. Yet my feed is polluted with articles about it.

I'm going to take some time to come up with a topic that I can (hopefully) "control" around my devices to see what happens. Sounds like fun (if ultimately pointless--for me anyway) experiment.

A friend and I were sitting at a bar, iPhones in pockets, discussing our recent trips in Japan and how we’d like to go back. The very next day, we both received pop-up ads on Facebook about cheap return flights to Tokyo.

Isn't it equally likely they both made posts on Facebook about being back from Japan on the day in question? Or checked in using their phones when they left for Japan?

[Sirtel]

I don't get one thing. All this talk about ads... site ads? Pop-up ads? I never see any. Sometimes I spend most of the day online, reading news, visiting lots of websites, doing Google searches etc, yet still without seeing a single ad.

(Of course, I use Adblock and update its filters regularly - I guess that's the reason? But surely I'm not the only one here using it).

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

No, I was out and about all day yesterday, losing my patience with children. But I did talk about this thread and people's concerns about Google, privacy and what is stored.

It could have been a coincidence. We tend to notice things only when they are relevant.

And there are other ways your interest could have been noticed besides your speakers listening to you. You were reading and posting about the topic on the web here on MobileRead.