Seriously thoughtful The NEW Covid Vaccination Poll

[binaryhermit]

Except if the reason was less people getting tested for the flu you wouldn't expect the positivity rate to be less than 1% of the usual rate, you'd expect it to be higher than the usual rate.

[astrangerhere]

The CDC already issued an interim guidance about this.

Adults can shed influenza virus 1 day before symptoms appear and up to approximately 5 to 7 days after onset of illness; thus, the selective use of masks (e.g., in proximity to a known symptomatic person) may not effectively limit transmission in the community. Young children, immunocompromised persons of any age, and critically ill patients with influenza can shed influenza viruses in the respiratory tract for prolonged periods. Moreover, because no single intervention can provide complete protection against influenza virus transmission, emphasis should be placed on multiple strategies including pharmaceutical (e.g., vaccines and antiviral medications) and non-pharmaceutical interventions. The latter group include: 1) community measures (e.g., social distancing and school closures); 2) environmental measures (e.g., routine surface cleaning); and 3) personal protective measures such as encouraging symptomatic persons to:

Of course, they note that the flu can spread before you have symptoms. But this year, we have had the unique situation of people wearing masks all the time in public, symptoms or no. I think it is a solid logical inference that it did indeed cut down on flu season this year.

I would strongly consider wearing a mask in future years during flu season if the research bears out. I know this is something that already happens in Japan and I would be interested in their research as well.

[binaryhermit]

Originally Posted by astrangerhere

I know this is something that already happens in Japan and I would be interested in their research as well.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's pretty much all of Asia and I also believe it goes back to their brush with SARS in the first half of the first decade of this century/millenium.

I suspect you may end up seeing people voluntarily doing the same if/when COVID is sufficiently close to no longer a thing now that COVID's kinda shattered that taboo.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by haertig

Probably due in part to masks, in part to incorrectly attributing some deaths to covid when they were actually flu. Other causes of death have fallen since covid started. I think this may be more of a data collection/reporting issue rather than a true decline in those other causes of death. It is the discussion we've all heard about, "died WITH covid vs. died OF covid".

I am getting somewhat tired of that "died WITH covid vs. died OF covid" comments. The number of urban myths such as people who died in traffic accidents were supposedly listed as Covid deaths with no supporting facts seem to be rather prevalent.

OTOH, looking at 2020, the number of deaths from non-Covid related causes did not decrease according to most of the studies I've seen. From one study at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, the only demographic that showed a drop in deaths was females between ages 5 and 14. Another story in the New York Times from Dec. 2020 that was headlined 2020 Was Especially Deadly. Covid Wasn’t the Only Culprit. though as the story says, some of those deaths may have been due to Covid-19 being misdiagnosed. While finding stories and studies suggesting the the number of deaths due to non-Covid-19 causes was higher than normal, finding a somewhat reliable source suggesting the opposite was the low calorie option.

So stating that there was a decline in deaths due to other causes seems to be a statement at variance with reality.

[cromag]

Got my second shot (Moderna) today.

I'm very disappointed. In the neighboring county they're giving out lollipops with your second shot. My county is no fun at all.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I am getting somewhat tired of that "died WITH covid vs. died OF covid" comments.

Also it devalues the lives of those with so-called "preexisting conditions." Guess what? The people with those conditions were alive. Then they contracted COVID and died. I dare you to say it's not COVID that killed them.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Also it devalues the lives of those with so-called "preexisting conditions." Guess what? The people with those conditions were alive. Then they contracted COVID and died. I dare you to say it's not COVID that killed them.

I'm not going to take your silly dare because I never said that, and I agree 100% with your apparent thoughts on covid being a big cause of death. I do not understand your outrage.

The numbers presented for people killed by covid alone are low. The numbers presented for people killed by covid with other co-morbidities are high.

That's not saying covid did not kill people. How in the world can you come up with that connection and become outraged at me for stating this simple and well known fact?

It is quite true that you can say, "They had this other condition but without covid they would not have died".

Perfectly true.

You can also say, "They had covid, but without this other condition they would not have died."

Perfectly true also.

Covid is a big contributor to death. I have never said otherwise. But in the majority of cases, it requires some other factor in combination to be fatal. Not in every case, but in most of them.

It is vitally important to take covid out of the equation since it is such a big contributor. Your outrage is misplaced. I think you feel I have a position on this that I most certainly do not.

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by haertig

You can also say, "They had covid, but without this other condition they would not have died."

Perfectly true also.

Speculation?

[haertig]

Originally Posted by arjaybe

Speculation?

The exact same amount of speculation as:

"They had this other condition but without covid they would not have died"

Which was my point.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by haertig

You can also say, "They had covid, but without this other condition they would not have died."

Perfectly true also.

Not a given, considering the severity of some of the variants.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Not a given, considering the severity of some of the variants.

Which is exactly why I said:

Not in every case, but in most of them.

Time will tell if these new variants will eventually make covid a primary, stand-alone killer. But as of right now, while it does happen on occasion, this is not generally the case. Most (again, not all) of the time, covid needs a co-morbidity to be fatal.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by haertig

Time will tell if these new variants will eventually make covid a primary, stand-alone killer.

COVID is the killer. The people with preexisting conditions were alive until they got it, and now they're dead.

[mlewis78]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

COVID is the killer. The people with preexisting conditions were alive until they got it, and now they're dead.

I agree with you.

If someone with diabetes catches Covid, they might die within a month. If they had not gotten Covid, they would likely live a few more years or even 10-15 years. There are ways to manage pre-existing conditions when Covid is not present.

[binaryhermit]

Allegedly, if you had an active COVID infection and you died of something definitely not COVID, like, say, an airplane losing an engine that hits and crushes you, statistically that'd be a COVID death.

That sounds extremely wrong to me, so don't quote me on that.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by haertig

The numbers presented for people killed by covid alone are low. The numbers presented for people killed by covid with other co-morbidities are high.
.

A lot of the so-called "co-morbidities" were not pre-existing conditions; they were notations on the death certificate causal chain like pneumonia (due to COVID), acute respiratory distress syndrome (due to COVID), and respiratory failure (due to COVID).

Saying that that's someone who died with COVID not from COVID is like saying that a stab victim died with a stab wound not from a stab wound - because their proximate cause of death was blood loss.