End of the line for Sony Readers?

[elcreative]

Never let facts get in the way of a "good" argument...

[porkupan]

Originally Posted by EatingPie

The link I provided actually says why there are shortages. You should take a look at it.

Oh yes, I took a look at it. About half a year ago, when this article actually came out. And then I seem to remember Sony execs apologize for miscalculating the Japanese demand (people were fighting each other for a red 650). It sounds like they were not ready to expand worldwide, not being able to fully satisfy even their original markets (which were the U.S. and later Europe). I have no idea what the availability of readers and accessories is in Japan at this point. The covers for a long time were sold out in North America and Europe, but perhaps they have recovered in some parts of the world.

Originally Posted by EatingPie

Right now, every reader but the Black PRS-650 is available at Sony Style, among other retailers I listed.
<...>
Sure. The covers are on Sony's site. *shrug* Just do a search. The only cover that is sold out there is the PRS-650 "premium" without a light. I don't recommend that one anyway.

The availability seems to change very quickly on Sony's U.S. site. Unless what's available for you is not available for me. I don't see any covers for 950 or 650. If you can provide links to online or B&M retailers where these are actually truly available, I will be very grateful to you.

[encapuchado]

Yeah, where are the covers? sonystyle.com doesn't list *any* cover for the 650. Covers don't need pearl screens. So, if Sony is not discontinuing the 650, why there are no covers available?

[Leyor]

I think some of the main arguments here are wheter:

A) Sony is pulling out of their retail channels in the US. Their recent clearance sales, plus anecdotial evidence posted on this forum supports this. Some of the forum members have called retail stores to confirm this. Do we have any additional information?

B) Their accessories are being discontinued. Well simple observation on their website confirms this. Additional anecdotial evidence on this forum confirms it, I for one couldnt buy a proper cover for my 950.

C) They arent supporting their product with firmware upgrades and fixes. Well they've released 1 update.

Does the above indicate that Sony are discontinuing their readers? Not nescessarily.
However since this thread does invite speculation and guessing about the future, it's hard not to draw conclusions when we see the level of attention other products are getting, and the above signs from Sony.

[porkupan]

Originally Posted by Leyor

C) They arent supporting their product with firmware upgrades and fixes. Well they've released 1 update.

While I will not argue the other points, this one needs to be addressed. Sony has not been providing firmware updates for the Readers. That's just how it is. With one notable exception of the EPUB support added first to 505 and later to 500 (as Sony ebook store was taking a strategic direction to switch from BBeB to EPUB). Not that Sony software cannot be improved (it absolutely can and should be improved!), that's just how Sony is. The product normally works quite well out of the box, and unless a glaring bug causing much customer service headache pops up, that is what you get.

Yes, Amazon and B&N proved to be different. Both kindle and nook were released with very raw firmware (especially nook-1, which was total crap, and IMO still is); the improvements, fixes and upgrades to come later. Unfortunately, Sony works in yearly product cycles. Once a product is released, the resources are at once reallocated to the next generation product with an effect of the newly released ones being immediately abandoned. No software support or enhancements of current products to speak of.

The other negative for Sony is that Sony doesn't listen to the customers. Very few important suggestions have ever been implemented by native firmware. Clock, font choice, font sizes, button customization, poor format support (RTF with pictures have been crashing readers for years), weird landscape reading mode, custom dictionaries... Sony developers take their direction from people who don't know how to read [or are unaware of internet forums].

[EatingPie]

Originally Posted by Leyor

I think some of the main arguments here are wheter:

A) Sony is pulling out of their retail channels in the US. Their recent clearance sales, plus anecdotial evidence posted on this forum supports this. Some of the forum members have called retail stores to confirm this. Do we have any additional information?

*Sigh*

This is the exact opposite of what anecdotal evidence suggests. The Readers are fully available, except the Black PRS-650. That has been a huge problem for them since December, but other models have not. Since there are three models, and a Red version of the PRS-650, which is available now, your whole argument centers on about 1/5th of the entire US Reader line.

B) Their accessories are being discontinued. Well simple observation on their website confirms this. Additional anecdotial evidence on this forum confirms it, I for one couldnt buy a proper cover for my 950.

Once again.... *sigh*.

I found every cover on Sony Style except the one for the PRS-650.

So, again, the evidence you are citing is exactly the opposite of what we are seeing in stores.

C) They arent supporting their product with firmware upgrades and fixes. Well they've released 1 update.

I thought this was addressed earlier.

Sony offered either two or three total updates in the three years I owned the PRS-500. I bought the PRS-505 late, so I don't know their record on that. The PRS-600 received one update in my ownership.

And after the new Readers came out, Sony stated they would not release updates for previous models. That lack of justification, and forced page numbering on the PRS-505 and PRS-600? You're stuck with those.

What this indicates is something that's been true for a long time: Sony sucks at software. I have made this point continuously on the forums. Their hardware design is excellent, but their software (firmware) support generally terrible... unless you own a PS3... but that's not very portable.

Another user suggested Sony doesn't do firmware on older models to push you to buy new ones. That completely sucks, but it makes sense, since that fits their track record from the very beginning of the Reader lines.

As much as it sucks, it's not an indication that they're discontinuing the Reader. It's just business as usual.

However since this thread does invite speculation and guessing about the future, it's hard not to draw conclusions when we see the level of attention other products are getting, and the above signs from Sony.

When you mis-state the above signs -- like you did -- then sure. Fortunately, two out of three items you listed are the opposite of what you said.

-Pie

[RajS]

To add some fuel to the fire.

EatingPie, I'd quite like the Sony PRS-950 cover with built in light. Any idea where I could get one? I didn't see one at SonyStyle.

I don't think Sony are exiting the reader market at all. I think they're in a holding pattern. Why I do not know, it could be they want to target investment towards a different technology or to wait for the ePub standard to become universally applied - who knows. It's all speculation.

That said, there are fewer and fewer places actually selling the Sony. Given that supply is < demand that really isn't a problem just yet - no point having suppliers with empty shelves. I'd imagine they'll get back on the shelves at some point soon - and in my view it will be some sort of breakthrough tech - ultrathin/ultralight or colour which will make the difference.

Opinion here worth exactly what you paid for it

Cheers.

[Japes]

Originally Posted by EatingPie

*Sigh*

This is the exact opposite of what anecdotal evidence suggests. The Readers are fully available, except the Black PRS-650. That has been a huge problem for them since December, but other models have not. Since there are three models, and a Red version of the PRS-650, which is available now, your whole argument centers on about 1/5th of the entire US Reader line.


Once again.... *sigh*.

I found every cover on Sony Style except the one for the PRS-650.

So, again, the evidence you are citing is exactly the opposite of what we are seeing in stores.



I thought this was addressed earlier.

Sony offered either two or three total updates in the three years I owned the PRS-500. I bought the PRS-505 late, so I don't know their record on that. The PRS-600 received one update in my ownership.

And after the new Readers came out, Sony stated they would not release updates for previous models. That lack of justification, and forced page numbering on the PRS-505 and PRS-600? You're stuck with those.

What this indicates is something that's been true for a long time: Sony sucks at software. I have made this point continuously on the forums. Their hardware design is excellent, but their software (firmware) support generally terrible... unless you own a PS3... but that's not very portable.

Another user suggested Sony doesn't do firmware on older models to push you to buy new ones. That completely sucks, but it makes sense, since that fits their track record from the very beginning of the Reader lines.

As much as it sucks, it's not an indication that they're discontinuing the Reader. It's just business as usual.


When you mis-state the above signs -- like you did -- then sure. Fortunately, two out of three items you listed are the opposite of what you said.

-Pie

I'm a newbie here and don't want to step on any toes, but, I can't quite understand this post. Best Buy is discontinuing these readers, as are other large retailers (BH Photo in New York also), and, unless I'm missing something, the following, which is the Sony Style store for ereader accessories (specifically reader covers/cases), is missing ALOT of them (which leads me to believe that this is all that is left, after having gotten rid of what they had):

https://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs...2&N=4294952782


So, I don't quite think the sighs are in order, as most of the points made in this thread about these readers being discontinued by some major US retailers is pretty accurate.

[EatingPie]

Originally Posted by RajS

To add some fuel to the fire.

EatingPie, I'd quite like the Sony PRS-950 cover with built in light. Any idea where I could get one? I didn't see one at SonyStyle.

Sorry, I don't see one, so I need to update my claims to two covers instead of just one.

Apparently these have been very hard to come by since the PRS-950 hit. I see posts celebrating finding one in January, and that's the only success story I can offer.

That said, there are fewer and fewer places actually selling the Sony. Given that supply is < demand that really isn't a problem just yet - no point having suppliers with empty shelves. I'd imagine they'll get back on the shelves at some point soon - and in my view it will be some sort of breakthrough tech - ultrathin/ultralight or colour which will make the difference.

Fewer B&M stores are selling Sony. There were three national stores that I know of. One (Target) shifted to Kindle-only sales, and another (Borders) filed for bankruptcy.

The third, Best Buy, still sells them in-store, while Target sells them online... along with the five major outlets I listed previously.

Originally Posted by Japes

I'm a newbie here and don't want to step on any toes, but, I can't quite understand this post. Best Buy is discontinuing these readers, as are other large retailers (BH Photo in New York also), and, unless I'm missing something, the following, which is the Sony Style store for ereader accessories (specifically reader covers/cases), is missing ALOT of them (which leads me to believe that this is all that is left, after having gotten rid of what they had):

https://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs...2&N=4294952782


So, I don't quite think the sighs are in order, as most of the points made in this thread about these readers being discontinued by some major US retailers is pretty accurate.

No worries about stepping on toes. I have thick skin and hard toes.

I believe the sighs were definitely in order, since I was frustrated! But it's important to understand the context. That was not my first or only post, so it cannot be taken alone. Everything listed there I had addressed with factual citations, yet they were twisted to mean exactly the opposite of what I had cited.

Okay, now to illustrate... You say that the claims of Sony Readers being discontinued by retailers are "accurate." How did you determine this? What evidence did people cite (beside me finding 5 major chains having them in stock)? Or is it because retailers have stated they are no longer carrying Sony Readers?

It's important to separate fact from speculation. So far, there has been no factual information supporting claims that retailers are ditching the Reader.

Even the thing about accessories: You realize in your link, every cover is available in one color or another once you click through? Once again, the facts do not correlate with the conclusion that the readers are being discontinued.

-Pie

[Solicitous]

Originally Posted by EatingPie

Now let's move to the Reader. History is repeating here: get out of the market; it's hopeless with the Nook's price-point, etc.

So lesson #1 is don't count Sony out. The PS3 was counted out, called far worse than the above, and it's profitable. Okay, that happens to be all the lessons.

I absolutely agree the Reader needs to drop its price. It's needed to for ages. Look at it compared to the Kindle. It is, however, a higher quality product in terms of weight, ergonomics and build. The utlra-light-weight is probably no longer an advantage (the Nook is probably quite light), nor is the pearl touch screen. But it's still ergonomic and solidly built metal. I would certainly continue buying Sony due to quality. But will others? There is something to be said for brand loyalty... but how much? I don't know.

Okay, so once again, I agree on the price issue. Hopefully Sony will too. But remember lesson #1: when everyone out there is writing off Sony's gaming division, they turn a profit.

It's very early to be digging the grave marked "Here lies Sony Reader." My shovel's staying in the garage, and I recommend yours does too.

-Pie

There were many posts about Sony when they announced the new PRS range and their pricing, declaring they were providing a quality product and not getting involved in a price-war with the other big sellers. History shows how quickly the demand and subsequent sell out of the PRS line happened. It does show that despite cheap ereaders out there, people are prepared to pay extra for what they deem to be valuable to them. Just like the automotive industry, you can buy (Aussie prices) a new car from as low as $12,999, but does that mean that Mercedes will drop the price of their imports to match? No, some people want cheap, others will pay for what they want.

I don't own a Sony, but from reading posts from happy buyers one thing stands out with the Sony, the solid build. The cheaper readers are thin plastic (which isn't all bad), so it would be very hard for Sony to compete on price yet keep a similar build quality.

So option, Sony drop price and build quality, OR keep same pricing schedule and keep same build quality. Take a pick? I some how feel people would pick the second option over the first.

[RajS]

>>> The third, Best Buy, still sells them in-store

Erm actually they only list the PRS 350 on the website and that is NOT available for ordering online but may be picked up from a store which still has them. Many stores don't.

The 950 has been removed from the website completely but there are still some in some stores available as clearance.

I've been to several stores which have removed their Sony Reader display completely.

The staff at these stores are all under the impression that Best Buy isn't intending to stock these going forward.

Every reasonable indication here is that BestBuy are intending to drop Sony Readers completely.

That said, if Sony come out with something compelling before BestBuy completely dismantle their Sony displays then I imagine they'll pull them back in, otherwise based on my experience I'm expecting Best Buy to stop carrying the Sony Readers.

Oh By the way, Target ONLY sells the PRS 350 online.

Cheers.

[vxf]

I am a big fan of SONY readers - but it seems pretty likely that this is the end of the line.

How else can you explain the discontinuation of accessories for something that has been out for less than a year?

Truth is, it makes sense. SONY's strong point has always been the hardware - and it is becoming clear that hardware will not drive profits in this industry.

Pity, but clearly in line with SONY's uncanny ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Leyor]

Sorry, I don't see one, so I need to update my claims to two covers instead of just one.

Are we looking at the same website? In the Sonystyle official store, all there is left are 4 types of items where there used to be aprox. 16. Seems all there is left in stock are those ridiculous zipper cases noone wants to buy and two types of covers for the 350.

It might be part of a brilliant market strategy that somehow involves getting people to buy other products. I don't know.

This is the exact opposite of what anecdotal evidence suggests.

Do a search on the Sony reader part of this forum, use the words best buy and target.
Feel free to persuade me otherwise with all the anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

As for the firmware, no reason to get into that, as we obviously agree on the point that none is forthcoming.

So far the only uplifting news I see is 6 months old, and then its downhill from there.

I can see how some desperately want this to be part of a brilliant marketing strategy by Sony, starving the market to eh make people buy other readers. Liking Sony products myself, this has all the hallmarks of their other niche products that had a good initial sale and then fell through due to limited follow up by Sony. (I am speaking marketing, supply channels, and support for their own product).

[MaxLV]

Originally Posted by encapuchado

Yeah, where are the covers? sonystyle.com doesn't list *any* cover for the 650. Covers don't need pearl screens. So, if Sony is not discontinuing the 650, why there are no covers available?

Covers are an optional extra. Just read the various threads here of the many different covers that can be used, or even made.

Here is a link to my 'solution' for a cover for my 650:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=100000

Sony 350 and 650 readers are readily available here in New Zealand along with the optional extra's like the covers, wall plug packs, usb cables and replacement stylus'es. If by chance a Sony store is out of stock, they get one in overnight.

I haven't seen a 950, but then I haven't looked...

Kindles and Nooks can only be obtained online here and have to come from the US, no retail shops import/sell them.

The other 'common' ereader available is the Kobo models.

Oh and the iPad, and a few other tablets (acer, Samsung) but they're not sold as ereaders.

BTW I removed the zip...

[MaxLV]

Originally Posted by encapuchado

Yeah, where are the covers? sonystyle.com doesn't list *any* cover for the 650. Covers don't need pearl screens. So, if Sony is not discontinuing the 650, why there are no covers available?

Covers are an optional extra that you dont have to get from Sony. Just read the various threads here of the many different covers that can be used, or even made.

Here is a link to my 'solution' for a cover for my 650:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=100000

BTW I removed the zip...