Semantic markup question!

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by SomeSteve

Some books contain big chunks of text in italics [...]. Or a character's thoughts might be italicized [...]. [...] If you enclose the word to be stressed in <em> tags, it will be italicized and appear indistinguishable from the text that surrounds it.

Like Hitch/Turtle said, it's like an ON/OFF switch.

So if there's an <em> or 2nd <i> inside of an outer <i>, then the text would be Roman/normal (straight-up-and-down).

Use this CSS:

i em { font-style: normal; }
i i { font-style: normal; }

and see me answering that exact question back in 2020:

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

In Fiction, Styles are also important when marking inner thoughts or "telepathic speaking":

<span class="innerthought">Wow, I did <em>not</em> do good at all.</span>

Note: Italics within italics = not italic (Normal/Roman).

What usually happens is you get this in your Word->HTML:

<i>Wow, I did</i> not <i>do good at all.</i>

Ultimately, you would want to aim towards HTML like this:

<i class="innerthought">Wow, I did <em>not</em> do good at all.</i>

Like I mentioned in Post #16 of this thread, it's easier to imagine it with a different color highlight.

Originally Posted by SomeSteve

A question from a person who knows very little about such things (i.e., me):

This is the ultimate and simplest explanation:

• 2021: "Italics and Bold"

If you're further interested in this <i> vs. <em> stuff, please visit those previously linked topics.

Then do a search for:

• Tex2002ans

My posts did a thorough job breaking down all the questions/examples + describing differences between all the cases:

• Book Titles
• Inner Thoughts
• Ship Names / Newspapers
• "Foreign" words
• Mathematics
• Citations
• Transcripts
• [...]

- - -

Side Note: Here's one more topic to toss on the reading list too:

• 2021: "Why, Sigil, Why? And can I change you?"

- - -

Side Note #2: This <i> vs. <em> "debate" gets rehashed about once a year, with more and more evidence piling up.

Since 2017, there were about 7 in-depth MobileRead topics with tons of examples (and discussions).

The last few built up upon the previous years, so instead of rehashing the same examples again and again, I summarized+brought even more each time.

So when you read that certain people have "NEVER heard of such a case" or have "NEVER seen an example", do not believe them.

They were a part of those discussions, and they've repeated the same exact things about a dozen times.

(And many times it already got answered earlier in the SAME EXACT topic!)

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

How about you read it. Then you can come back with a valid question and/or comment about what is actually happening instead of just being a curmudgeon???

You should know the standards committee is going to do something stupid. Just look at ePub 3 and some of the tings they've done there.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You should know the standards committee is going to do something stupid. Just look at ePub 3 and some of the tings they've done there.

Jon:

Yes, we all know that's possible because it's already happened with the multimedia stuff, before other things that really needed real help/insight. NONETHELESS, you are cart/horsing.

You really are being very very obstreperous, even for you, on this one, Jon. Not sure I truly understand why you are allowing this one to get up your nose so badly. it's simple enough for those of us making ebooks--we can choose to use em and i, or not. Right? It's not really skin off your nose if they do, or don't. If you get one that's bollixed, fine, then complain but all this whingeing, effectively prophylactically about something that, on this front, has NOT happened yet...sheesh.

Hitch

[SomeSteve]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

...

This is the ultimate and simplest explanation:

• 2021: "Italics and Bold"

If you're further interested in this <i> vs. <em> stuff, please visit those previously linked topics.

...

Thanks for all the information (and, again, to everyone else who chimed in). It's all way above my pay grade, but I do manage to absorb bits here and there.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by SomeSteve

Thanks for all the information (and, again, to everyone else who chimed in). It's all way above my pay grade, but I do manage to absorb bits here and there.

And this is what I meant by highlighting helping you see the differences:



HTML:

<p><i>Wow, I did</i> not <i>do good at all.</i></p>
<p><i>Wow, I did <em>not</em> do good at all.</i></p>

The 1st is how you typical word processor would spit it out.

The 2nd is the type of HTML you would ultimately aim for:

• <i> = Italics marks the entire "inner thought".
• <em> = Emphasis marks the emphasized word.

- - -

Side Note: And this is the CSS I used to create the above image:

/* These 2 control the emphasis-inside-italics or italics-inside-italics. */

i em {
  font-style: normal;
}
i i {
  font-style: normal;
}

/* These 2 temporarily highlight the italics or emphasis while proofing. */

i {
  background-color: yellow;
}
em {
  background-color: orange;
}