The Jim Butcher Files: Dresden . Codex Alera . Cinder Spires & More

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

No one commented on my observation about Wizards and electricity. Am I the only one who thinks this story element was just contrived to give Harry a hard time in his daily life, like a nagging wife or a cowardly Great Dane? Or is there a mytho-historic reasoning behind this?

We know from the books that Harry can identify faerie-folk by touching them with iron (I've heard that trope elsewhere). But iron doesn't hurt Harry, and some electrical gear can function around him. And the extent to which he impacts electricity is very erratic: His old car will run, but the A/C konks out, for example.

[Nyssa]

I go away (kind of) for a day and my threads been taken over by Stargate ... Humph!

Unfortunately I've not had a lot of PC time, so I haven't had a chance to respond when I've wanted. I'm on my phone now, and it's not fun posting w/ it.

Anyway, on the topic of Syfy .... I do like their Monday night line up w/ Eureka, Warehouse 13 and Alphas. This season of Eureka is now over and I don't know what I'll watch once the other 2 are done for the season. Although I' sad that Eureka only has 1 more season, I'm glad they have a chance to wrap it up nicely, instead of it just being yanked off the air.

As for Dresden, my hope is that someone will relaunch/reboot it and give it a fair chance.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

I go away (kind of) for a day and my threads been taken over by Stargate ... Humph!

Hey... the way things go in this forum, you're lucky we're still talking in English!

Originally Posted by Nyssa

As for Dresden, my hope is that someone will relaunch/reboot it and give it a fair chance.

But maybe not right away: Many Butcher fans were unhappy with the writing on the show, and how so many characters went through major changes for TV. Would you rather see the original production crew continue the show, or a brand new team and actors?

I was okay with the original production, but when I first saw it, I hadn't read any of Butcher's books. Now that I have (I'm on book 4 now), I can't say I have a problem with the TV version... it's clearly different, but not horribly so. I might not have picked Blackthorne, but that's partially because I've seen the Butcher book covers and read the books, and it seems Harry is a lot more brooding. But that may not work well for the TV show.

[Nyssa]

Hubby and I plan to watch the series again, so I'll have to get back to you on that one.

The only characters I remember from the show are Dresden and Bob, both of whom I like(d).

[alansplace]

Originally Posted by OneandonlyDoc

Yes...we do have Castle, which is amazing in a lot of the right ways....)

....and ever since the first episode i started picturing molly c. quinn (alexis castle) as molly carpenter along with my long-time visualization of jeff goldblum (maybe 20 rears younger than now) as harry.

[alansplace]

Originally Posted by tilia

I wouldn’t call it horror. It’s neither gory, nor scary enough for me. I’d call it urban fantasy or paranormal/supernatural. It’s a mystery, so paranormal mystery seems fitting. I got the impression that Harry is a kind of wizard detective, is there such a thing as detective fantasy?

But I’ve already admitted to have had a wandering mind while listening to the audio book, so don’t mind me. I may have missed things.

i happen to not care very much for the pigeonholing of books into genres even though i admittedly use genres to help to describe different books to people. with that said, in what genre would you classify the novel jaws, the movie jaws?

[alansplace]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

No one commented on my observation about Wizards and electricity. Am I the only one who thinks this story element was just contrived to give Harry a hard time in his daily life, like a nagging wife or a cowardly Great Dane? Or is there a mytho-historic reasoning behind this?

We know from the books that Harry can identify faerie-folk by touching them with iron (I've heard that trope elsewhere). But iron doesn't hurt Harry, and some electrical gear can function around him. And the extent to which he impacts electricity is very erratic: His old car will run, but the A/C konks out, for example.

i don't have an opinion on that. the wizarding world of harry dresden has that as part of it and the wizarding world of harry potter doesn't. it's a 'so what' for me.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

One thing that certainly gives the books some color, but which I just can't manage to accept (I don't remember if the TV series touched on this) is the problems wizards have around electronics... lights blow out, AC dies, sophisticated electronics crash, etc.

It's not that I have a logic problem about it--I mean, we're talking about wizards and magic--I just can't believe that the Wizard's Guild hasn't figured out how to cast some spell that prevents them from shorting out complex electronics everywhere they go, so they aren't forced to live like Druids in the modern world, or repelling all of their non-magic friends ("Get away from me! My cellphone hates you! Back off!").

And do I believe these most powerful beings would be content riding around in 50-year-old cars?

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

No one commented on my observation about Wizards and electricity. Am I the only one who thinks this story element was just contrived to give Harry a hard time in his daily life, like a nagging wife or a cowardly Great Dane? Or is there a mytho-historic reasoning behind this?

We know from the books that Harry can identify faerie-folk by touching them with iron (I've heard that trope elsewhere). But iron doesn't hurt Harry, and some electrical gear can function around him. And the extent to which he impacts electricity is very erratic: His old car will run, but the A/C konks out, for example.

Ahh...This is one of the things I wanted to talk about...thanks for reminding me.

This is the first I've heard of the magic vs electricity issue. I don't mind it that much, although, it does seem like a "let's make Harry's life miserable" plat device, at times. I can not remember specific instances, but there seemed to be some inconsistency in the first 2 books.
Based on your comments, sounds like inconsistency continues to be a problem in the following books as well. That's unfortunate.

I agree with you about it being odd (and somewhat unbelievable) that no wizardry governing body has come up with solution. Its highly inconvenient to have the lights blown out on you in the middle of a line-of-sight spell, unless those do not exist. Plus, in his line of work, a cellphone would come in pretty handy!

[alansplace]

here're the laws that harry must live by (or is it get away with...er breaking?)

The 7 Laws are:

* Thou shalt not kill by use of magic. A plea of self-defense is allowed in mitigation, though it seems to work only rarely. Wardens often wield swords when detaining and executing warlocks to avoid a technical infraction of this Law. At several points in the series, however, Wardens have used lethal magic against human wizards; it is possible that Wardens are allowed some latitude in the heat of combat, as obviously in battle they are employed with the consent of the Council, or rather this is an extension of the latitude of self-defense. The use of magic to kill non-human beings, on the other hand, is lawful; a wizard may, for example, use magic to kill a vampire, a ghoul or any being of the Nevernever without breaking this Law.

* Thou shalt not transform others. See also shapechangers.

* Thou shalt not invade the mind of another. During an attempt on his mind, Harry makes the comment that because of its outlaw status, research into mind magic is remarkably limited and as a result, training to resist such invasions is very basic. Molly Carpenter broke this Law.

* Thou shalt not enthrall another. Enthrallment is the term for magically dominating another through binding their will to one's own. It is not the same as compelling non-human beings through arrangements or exchanges; if the wizard does not actually control the being's mind through magic, the Law is not broken. It is implied that this is one of the Laws which extends to wizards acting upon denizens of the Nevernever. Justin DuMorne broke this Law, having enthralled Elaine with intent to enthrall Harry, and Molly Carpenter was tried for breaking this Law.

* Thou shalt not reach beyond the Borders of Life. This Law prohibits both research into and the practice of necromancy, described as the summoning, binding and exploitation of the unwilling dead. The Law applies specifically to human necromancy, though it is implied that the distinction for use upon animals is all the same frowned upon. It is unknown if this rule would apply to dead non-human sentients, as most inhabitants of the Nevernever are ectoplasmic and not of flesh. Harry Dresden notes that Black Court vampires are vulnerable to necromancy in an unspecified fashion, and it is unknown if such use would constitute a breaking of the Law. Communicating with spirits of the dead who are willing to do so is not a violation of this law.

* Thou shalt not swim against the Currents of Time. This prohibits any attempt to change the past through temporal manipulation for fear of paradoxes. Even magical prediction is frowned upon except in the vaguest, most general forms. It is stated, however, that some beings in the Dresdenverse exist in the past, present, and future at once, and that such beings can be dangerous for this reason.

* Thou shalt not seek beyond the Outer Gates. What the "Outer Gates" are is unknown, but the implication is that they mark the furthest boundaries of Dresden's multiverse. Beings from beyond the Gates are known as Outsiders, and are among the deadliest known threats to humanity – their existence itself is antithetical to the universe. May or may not be related to the Gatekeeper, a mysterious member of the Senior Council. The Dresden Files RPG has expanded upon this law in its publications, establishing that is illegal to attempt to even learn anything about what lies beyond the Outer Gates, though it acknowledges that there is obviously some grey area here or the Wardens wouldn't know what to look for.

[Nyssa]

* Thou shalt not kill by use of magic. A plea of self-defense is allowed in mitigation, though it seems to work only rarely. Wardens often wield swords when detaining and executing warlocks to avoid a technical infraction of this Law. At several points in the series, however, Wardens have used lethal magic against human wizards; it is possible that Wardens are allowed some latitude in the heat of combat, as obviously in battle they are employed with the consent of the Council, or rather this is an extension of the latitude of self-defense. The use of magic to kill non-human beings, on the other hand, is lawful; a wizard may, for example, use magic to kill a vampire, a ghoul or any being of the Nevernever without breaking this Law.

Yeah, this is the rule I was questioning in Fool Moon. The magic wielders were human.

[alansplace]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Yeah, this is the rule I was questioning in Fool Moon. The magic wielders were human

well....i believe that in the case you're talking about...

Spoiler:

harry let two of them kill each other and the third got killed by murphy using her gun. the loup-garou was killed by harry both when it was still a loup-garou and in self defense

...so no magical laws broken, right?

[Nyssa]

Oh yeah....silly me. I was concentrating on the accessories and not the facts.

Just finished watching the first episode. I kept waiting for Murphy to arrest Dresden.....

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Ahh...This is one of the things I wanted to talk about...thanks for reminding me.

This is the first I've heard of the magic vs electricity issue. I don't mind it that much, although, it does seem like a "let's make Harry's life miserable" plat device, at times. I can not remember specific instances, but there seemed to be some inconsistency in the first 2 books.
Based on your comments, sounds like inconsistency continues to be a problem in the following books as well. That's unfortunate.

I agree with you about it being odd (and somewhat unbelievable) that no wizardry governing body has come up with solution. Its highly inconvenient to have the lights blown out on you in the middle of a line-of-sight spell, unless those do not exist. Plus, in his line of work, a cellphone would come in pretty handy!

I agree that it's a minor plot device along the "my life sucks, lights blow out on me and I have to take cold showers" vein. It almost seems like the equivalent of a private dick with an ex-wife or a police Captain who hates him. But mostly it seems strange that other magic-wielding creatures, many more powerful than Harry, don't brown-out entire city blocks whenever they come calling.

And yes, inconsistent: If he affects sophisticated electronics, I don't see how he can use a telephone, even an old one; they've had transistorized parts since the fifties.

(If Jim Butcher's looking at this, he's probably rolling his eyes and mumbling nasty incantations at me right now...)

[carld]

Harry works best with WWII level tech or earlier. His car is a 1960's beetle and even that ends up in the shop constantly because he accidentally hexes it. It's not a hard and fast rule that you can graph though, and much of the effect depends on his emotional state, random chance, and the tech involved.

Also, as far as I know the Murphyonic Field (what ever can go wrong will go wrong) is an artifact of the human use of magic. I could be wrong, but that's what I've always thought.

[BillSmithBooks]

Originally Posted by carld

SyFy (I still *blechh* at that name) has a bad history of scuttling successful and popular shows. They killed of Stargate SG-1, Stargate: Atlantis, Dresden Files, and now Eureka.

Let us not forget the brilliant Farscape, cut down in its prime as well.