Footnote problem in kepub conversion

[JSWolf]

As shown by some examples, the superscripted number for the tap zone does not have to always be that way. So why not mention to whomever you are working for an let them know that the way it's done in the pBook is not going to work for the eBook and give them a better way to do it so it does work for the eBook?

[Quoth]

Only edit LO Writer as ODT, but extra Save As in docx and import to Calibre.
If the document is created appropriately in MS Word or LO Writer the only editing at all of the epub needed would be CSS width or height of any images a percent of the screen.

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by Liudprand

In fact, as far as I know they're not supported at all (except when the default figures in a typeface already resemble text figures).

Old-style number support in e-readers is definitely bad, especially considering that if you have a half-decent HTML/CSS renderer and an OpenType font that is set up for them, it's actually easy:

font-feature-settings: "onum" 1;

There are some readers that support this, but others ignore it. Worse, though, is Kindle, which will silently do the equivalent of the above line with the following CSS:

font-variant: small-caps;
text-transform: lowercase;

This is a common method used to end up with small caps when the source text is all uppercase. But, Kindle gives it what might be an unwanted side-effect.

[Liudprand]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

As shown by some examples, the superscripted number for the tap zone does not have to always be that way. So why not mention to whomever you are working for an let them know that the way it's done in the pBook is not going to work for the eBook and give them a better way to do it so it does work for the eBook?

Well, mainly because I agree with them, not you, on the basis of having read many, many ebooks on my Libra 2 with superscript note cues and never having a problem. But also because I don't want to become one of those annoying freelancers who's constantly whining about the brief, and assuming I know better. But thanks for the question.

[Liudprand]

Originally Posted by nabsltd

Old-style number support in e-readers is definitely bad, especially considering that if you have a half-decent HTML/CSS renderer and an OpenType font that is set up for them, it's actually easy:

font-feature-settings: "onum" 1;

There are some readers that support this, but others ignore it. Worse, though, is Kindle, which will silently do the equivalent of the above line with the following CSS:

font-variant: small-caps;
text-transform: lowercase;

This is a common method used to end up with small caps when the source text is all uppercase. But, Kindle gives it what might be an unwanted side-effect.

That's interesting (though I don't understand the coding bits!). The more I learn about Kindle/Amazon's whole approach, the happier I am to have a Kobo. Their ecosystem seems more geared to serving readers, rather than capturing as much of a monopoly as possible as brutally as possible, and then just assuming readers will put up with whatever Amazon decides is convenient for itself on its devices, and broader ecosystem.

[Liudprand]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Only edit LO Writer as ODT, but extra Save As in docx and import to Calibre.
If the document is created appropriately in MS Word or LO Writer the only editing at all of the epub needed would be CSS width or height of any images a percent of the screen.

Your first sentence here is a bit compressed - not sure what you mean.

Do you mean that if I Save As docx from LO, and then import the resulting docx to Calibre, those issues with headings will go away? And, if so, will the within-chapter note numbering be preserved? Because it was the conversion of docx to ePub within Calibre that bolloxed that up in the first place, which prompted me to write the initial post.

To be clear: Are you saying that, even though Calibre converts a docx produced in Word with notes-within-chapters(i.e. sections) so that the notes are numbered consecutively throughout the whole book, if I format an odt file within LO, and then save it as a docx, Calibre will then conserve the notes-within-chapters style properly?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by nabsltd

Old-style number support in e-readers is definitely bad, especially considering that if you have a half-decent HTML/CSS renderer and an OpenType font that is set up for them, it's actually easy:

font-feature-settings: "onum" 1;

There are some readers that support this, but others ignore it. Worse, though, is Kindle, which will silently do the equivalent of the above line with the following CSS:

font-variant: small-caps;
text-transform: lowercase;

This is a common method used to end up with small caps when the source text is all uppercase. But, Kindle gives it what might be an unwanted side-effect.

The correct CSS for smallcaps is...

text-transform: uppercase;
font-variant: small-caps;

You need the text top be uppercase before it can be converted to smallcaps.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Liudprand

Well, mainly because I agree with them, not you, on the basis of having read many, many ebooks on my Libra 2 with superscript note cues and never having a problem. But also because I don't want to become one of those annoying freelancers who's constantly whining about the brief, and assuming I know better. But thanks for the question.

So you don't care about the people reading the eBook who will have trouble tapping that tiny number.

[Liudprand]

Originally Posted by Liudprand

Your first sentence here is a bit compressed - not sure what you mean.

Do you mean that if I Save As docx from LO, and then import the resulting docx to Calibre, those issues with headings will go away? And, if so, will the within-chapter note numbering be preserved? Because it was the conversion of docx to ePub within Calibre that bolloxed that up in the first place, which prompted me to write the initial post.

To be clear: Are you saying that, even though Calibre converts a docx produced in Word with notes-within-chapters(i.e. sections) so that the notes are numbered consecutively throughout the whole book, if I format an odt file within LO, and then save it as a docx, Calibre will then conserve the notes-within-chapters style properly?

If that was what you meant, Quoth - it doesn't work. Just tried it. The notes are back to a single sequence throughout the book.

[Liudprand]

On the other hand, the headings did come out correctly - but that was never a problem I had in the first place (only since trying to work with ePub export from LO).

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Liudprand

If that was what you meant, Quoth - it doesn't work. Just tried it. The notes are back to a single sequence throughout the book.

Did you get the email?
Have you ignored the instruction NEVER use Insert notes/footnote, but manually bookmark & link and manually number? Also manual only numbering also applies to lists.

I have no problem numbering notes 1 to N and having them after each chapter and restarting at next chapter.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Liudprand

To be clear: Are you saying that, even though Calibre converts a docx produced in Word with notes-within-chapters(i.e. sections) so that the notes are numbered consecutively throughout the whole book, if I format an odt file within LO, and then save it as a docx, Calibre will then conserve the notes-within-chapters style properly?

Word or LO Writer work for me to do notes exactly as you want, each chapter's notes after the chapter and restarting at 1.

Also I don't use sections. Not needed to make ebooks or PDFs even if they seem to have sections / parts / volumes. Just create a suitable paragraph style with a suitable heading level. Then Sections/Parts are level 1 and main chapters are Level 2.

Never autonumber anything except pages in footer or header (paper / PDF destination only). It's simply a convenience and in total work saves little time. No auto-numbered chapters, notes or lists.

But only edit odt files with LO Writer (opening a docx does a conversion) and only convert docx with Calibre (because odt support is ancient and broken), so always a final extra Save As in docx purely for Calibre or other MS Word users. Only edit odt in LO Writer. If you start with a docx in LO Writer, save at once in odt and then check all page styles, headings, paragraph styles as the input file read a docx may look right (and print on paper), it's a conversion concentrating on cosmetics rather than sane structure! Actually different versions of MS word using each other's doc and docx have the same problem!

[Liudprand]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So you don't care about the people reading the eBook who will have trouble tapping that tiny number.

As it happens, I myself am one of those "people" of whom you speak, and I have no trouble tapping the "tiny number". I mean, maybe once or twice, but almost never.

If you're talking about people with some kind of disability, such as a tremor, then yes, I can see that might be a problem. But there are all kinds of ways in which technology like this can be adjusted for those people specifically, rather than making everything easily accessible for everyone. It would be like suggesting every door in the world should have a wheelchair ramp.

And, as I've already said several times, the people you should be taking this up with if you feel strongly about it are the people who run big publishing houses. Maybe you'll even have some success.

[Liudprand]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Word or LO Writer work for me to do notes exactly as you want, each chapter's notes after the chapter and restarting at 1.

Also I don't use sections. Not needed to make ebooks or PDFs even if they seem to have sections / parts / volumes. Just create a suitable paragraph style with a suitable heading level. Then Sections/Parts are level 1 and main chapters are Level 2.

Never autonumber anything except pages in footer or header (paper / PDF destination only). It's simply a convenience and in total work saves little time. No auto-numbered chapters, notes or lists.

But only edit odt files with LO Writer (opening a docx does a conversion) and only convert docx with Calibre (because odt support is ancient and broken), so always a final extra Save As in docx purely for Calibre or other MS Word users. Only edit odt in LO Writer. If you start with a docx in LO Writer, save at once in odt and then check all page styles, headings, paragraph styles as the input file read a docx may look right (and print on paper), it's a conversion concentrating on cosmetics rather than sane structure! Actually different versions of MS word using each other's doc and docx have the same problem!

I'm glad it works for you - it doesn't for me. Something I'm doing wrong, or could do differently, I've no doubt.

But the way I finally managed to get all of the formatting I wanted was to export to ePub from LO, specifying "Page break" as the split method rather than "Heading". It did something weird with my ToC (where just the heading remains, without the ToC itself); but the system ToC is functional in the ePub, so that doesn't really matter.

The only other slight frustration is that I don't know how to have different paragraph formats in LO for chapter numbers and chapter titles that will both show up, combined - i.e. "2. What I Did on My Holidays", in the navigation system within the kepub (i.e. at the top of the page). Because I now have them in two different paragraph styles, only the number shows up at the top of the page on my Libra 2 - "2", or whatever. But I can probably live with that.

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The correct CSS for smallcaps is...

text-transform: uppercase;
font-variant: small-caps;

You need the text top be uppercase before it can be converted to smallcaps.

Your post is completely backwards from reality:
https://www.w3schools.com/cssref/pr_...nt-variant.php

For an example:
https://jsfiddle.net/m5cjpq3t/1/

Basically, lowercase letters get changed to small uppercase by font-variant: small-caps and uppercase letters are untouched. If you want every character in the span to be small caps, you need to convert them to lowercase first.

What has likely confused you is that you see the following in a lot of eBooks to simulate small caps:

<p>The sign read <small>OPEN</small></p>