06-30-2009, 06:16 PM | #76 | |
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Patricia, let me be a little more specific. In the state school I went to, Locke was covered, the same as the Founding Fathers of the American Republic were covered, as historical events, with only a cursory relevance to current events/concepts/worldviews. There was no analysis of what current (and by current I mean in the previous 20 years or so) government decisions did to the social/political/economic environment (both good and bad). All actions end up with unintended consequences (including no action at all), and teaching people to look for them, and include them in the cost of the decisions made, to be able to evaluate whether or not a decision was sucessful, or needs to be either revised or eliminated or even expanded upon, strikes me as important, no matter what the decision is made. What I got instead was practical methods and techniques of implementing laws and building consensus for gaining electoral power. Certainly not something an "educated" citizen would need to ably exercise his franchise, unless his goal was to be a corrupt politician. Of course, I was dealing with Political Science, History, ans Economic classes, rather that philosophy class. There I was able to take logic classes, so I could concentrate on other, tougher courses. (I was a pre-med/molecular biology student, at a time when 4 ot of 5 qualified student didn't get into Med school. The competition was intense.) |
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06-30-2009, 06:27 PM | #77 | |
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06-30-2009, 06:29 PM | #78 | |
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I'm assuming you mean Joseph McCarthy's prisons. What prisons? Can you describe them, and/or locate them? I'm quite serious. I can point out many re-education camps. And mass graves.... This is not to deny that HUAC (which was separate from Joseph McCarthy's hearings) cut off certain people's way of earning an income. Was this better or worse that the Japanese American internment camps? Or limiting Jewish immigration from Germany before 1939? Or.... |
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06-30-2009, 06:43 PM | #79 |
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06-30-2009, 07:00 PM | #80 | |
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Mcarthyism did not only 'deprive people of an income', it forced many into exile to avoid imprisonment, most famously being Ring Lardner Jr, the Screenwriter. There were plenty of imprisonments during the HUAC, only not of the highly public figures. A Witch hunt isn't really a Witch hunt if when you find the Witch you don't do anything with her now, is it? |
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06-30-2009, 07:02 PM | #81 | |
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Please tell me what you call what happened to the Dixie Chicks in 2004. Last edited by zerospinboson; 06-30-2009 at 07:08 PM. |
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06-30-2009, 07:47 PM | #82 |
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06-30-2009, 08:32 PM | #83 | |
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"During a London, England concert ten days before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, lead vocalist Maines said, "we don't want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas" (the Dixie Chicks' home state).[2] The statement offended people who thought it rude and unpatriotic, and the ensuing controversy cost the group half of their concert audience attendance in the United States and led to accusations of the three women being un-American, as well as hate mail, a death threat, and the destruction of their albums in protest.[3]" Here is the link to the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Chicks Now. They were in London and made what I consider a disgusting remark. You may think what you like about your country, but anyone with any loyalty at all will not show such disrespect in another country. What happened? Their sales dropped, and their careers almost bombed. I believe that was because most citizens of this country truly felt they were in the wrong. Radio personalities can harange all they want......if the majority doesn't agree, nothing will happen. I think in this case the majority felt they were wrong. |
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06-30-2009, 08:40 PM | #84 |
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Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
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06-30-2009, 08:44 PM | #85 |
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06-30-2009, 08:47 PM | #86 |
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Europe? EDIT: Oh and the patriotism quote was from Samuel Johnson. EDIT 2: And it also seems, and I may be making cultural stereotypes here, that Americans are far more vociferous in their proclamations of Patriotism. Whereas over here, the UK, and I would assume most of Europe, that kind of exuberance would label the owner as a bit of a loony or, more than likely, a fascist. Not making any judgments here, just stating how it is over here in Europe. For instance, the waving of a British Flag/Showing a British Flag outside your house has for a long time hinted at leanings toward the right wing and fascism. As with Religion, most British citizens are pretty much indifferent when it comes to patriotism. Its more of a shrug of the shoulders reaction, unless its the footie -- then you'll see some ridiculous patriotism from usually rational and intelligent people. Last edited by Moejoe; 06-30-2009 at 08:53 PM. |
06-30-2009, 09:00 PM | #87 |
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Nobody is perfect. One can cite atrocities perpetrated by EVERY group of people, during all of known history.
Frankly, while war and conflict are never pretty, generally well trained, orderly armies, like that of the US, are less likely to inflict indiscriminate damage and suffering. They also generally have fairly well established mechanisms for dealing with atrocities committed by their own soldiers (which also means, that they are more likely to make such atrocities public.) But I trust, that you would not equate the death and suffering of those who were sent to the gulags, with the fate of the communist sympathizers ("useful idiots") under McCarthy's persecution (my God, Lardner even had to live in England for a couple of years!) BTW, the opening of recent Soviet archives, as well as the Venona Papers, showed, that some of those blacklisted, did indeed work for the Soviets. So much for the Rosenbergs movie.... As Ayn Rand herself put it: "Their purpose [of the Soviet-sponsored communists] is to corrupt non-political movies – by introducing small, casual bits of propaganda into innocent stories – and to make people absorb the basic premises of Collectivism by indirection and implication." Last edited by Sonist; 06-30-2009 at 09:21 PM. |
06-30-2009, 09:00 PM | #88 | |
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As for the native population, really, "whole genocide"? That would mean there were none around. Interesting. Ever heard of the Navajo Code talkers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker Now, there has to be something about a country that inspires such loyalty. I won't even try to respond to the link between American corporations and the Nazi concentration camps. I feel dirty just reading that. |
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06-30-2009, 09:04 PM | #89 |
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Buh, there is no God....
Uhm, how did you put it exactly? Was it: "Because God forbid you say anything substantive..?" |
06-30-2009, 09:04 PM | #90 | |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanta |
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